Clover dies easily. Whether that’s people walking on it, temperature extremes, too little water, snow. That makes a lawn look patchy. It can be used in certain places, but definitely not all.
Clovers are far superior to grass. We had them mixed in pretty thoroughly growing up on our brand new property with the shittiest clay dirt imaginable. The farmland it all replaced was undoubtedly packaged and sold somewhere else.
I grew up on an American farm and I cannot comprehend the suburbs. Grass just grows, it was there before developers bull dozed whatever forest / farm / wetland was already there to install impossible to walk cul-de-sacs everywhere. Less massive yards and more public parks would be better for everyone.
is everything else on this site also true?
Only when greentexted.
Fake: Anon goes outside
Gay: Gardening (? idk this one is a struggle)
Gardening is gay because of roses. Gardens often contain roses, the Japanese word for rose is bara. Barazoku, meaning the rose tribe was Japan’s first gay magazine. The magazine was named so because the rose is a prominent symbol of male homosexuality in Japan. This is because of the Greek myth of King Laius who would have affairs with boys under rose trees. You might argue that gardening is not gay if the garden includes no roses but you would be wrong. Roses grow in soil, the word soil is gay. Therefore any form of gardening is inherently gay.
Fellas, is it gay to garden?
I was listening to some good EDM while gardening yesterday. Just grooving around and then saw a spot that needed a bit of hand weeding.
ACCIDENTAL TWERKING
all that bending over? getting dirty fingers? getting heads off plants? sowing seeds? hell yeah
sowing seeds?
I think this is significantly less gay than you think
Some people are more versatile than others…
If anything I think paying close attention to a lawn is classic heterosexual male behaviour
As a hetero male I can confirm. I live in the northern hemisphere, in mild continental climate. In this time of the year everything dries up. Grass retreat to their roots/rhizomes. Wild flowers curl up their cute little leaves while bees visit their tiny flowers that defy the heat. This shit is lit!
Then you would think Hank Hill would have a great time at the Gay Rodeo
My GOD that would have been a good episode! Hank gets invited to a rodeo, says no. Tells Peggy, she’s like “Go Hank, it’ll be fun!” He says he doesn’t like Rodeo’s, they’re just show and not real sport or something else Hank Hill-ish. Peggy convinces him to go, he has an amazing time, all the while completely oblivious to the fact that it’s a gay rodeo. Makes a comment in passing that’s completely innocuous, but in the context of a gay rodeo makes everyone think he’s a power bottom. Gets the nickname “Backdoor Buckaroo,” which Hank thinks is in appreciation of how much work he does helping everyone out behind the scenes.
The last day of the rodeo he invites the family and friends and Mr. Strickland to the rodeo, and Peggy explains to him what’s going on, right before they announce a special thank you to “Hank ‘Backdoor Buckaroo’ Hill” over the loud speaker. Queue “ahhhh” scene
That’s honestly better than every King of the Hill episode I’ve ever seen.
There was this study, I think it was German, of fields for hay (herbivores eat it). They had monocultures and then fields with mixes. While some monocultures did very well some years the mixes did best on average - better defined as producing more biomass. The same probably goes for lawns.
This has been known for quite a while now. I’ve seen US Ag short films from the 1930s on the benefits of pasture blends and the increased tonnage of feed it produces and how best to manage it to maximize the feed values for greater profits.
Growing up on a small dairy farm we used a mix of alfalfa, red clover, and timothy or maybe fescue. It’s been few decades. It was pretty much up to providing decent forage even in dry years or on light ground.
this makes sense from a mathematical perspective, because you’re diversifying risks so in a year where one type of plant doesn’t grow well, another can take over. so it’s more likely that there’s a plant in there that can grow well that year.
Yeah, it didn’t blow my mind but I’m glad that people do the science so we can actually quantify these things. They had big improvements up to 4 species and then the gains were less as they increased it.
Of course this doesn’t mean you can drop monoculture in agriculture. You still need your grains to mature at the same time so you can harvest mechanically. Buyers don’t want mixes of stuff either. All that jazz. But lawns would probably be much better off with mixed plants.
Grass isn’t inherently a bad idea for a lawn, it’s just specific to your individual climate. The main issue is that most of the grasses people plant are native to much cooler climates in Europe.
I have a grass lawn, but it’s a native Buffalo grass. It’s much more drought tolerant than clover, flowers a couple times a year, doesn’t require any maintenance, and provides a natural habitat for native wildlife.
Clover isn’t actually much better than most grasses if you are trying to support the natural biodiversity. It’s not native to north America, and thus only supports a small range of wildlife that’s adapted to it.
A Lot of America’s natural ground cover is actually low lying shrubs and flowering plants.
One of the things I remember when I visited Florida as a kid from the UK was how weird their grass was. It’s all spiky.
And kept trying to point this out but for some bizarre reason my parents weren’t interested.
There are several clover species native to NA.
Most are only found in the west, but theres a few eastern ones like Trifolium kentuckiense.
But sure, the common clover in most peoples yards is likely Trifolium pratense or Trifolium repens
There are native clovers, but they aren’t what you would really classify as ground cover.
Trifolium stoloniferum probably would fit that bill. But its easily outcompeted by other plants.
That’s buffalo clover right? Isn’t that extinct, or like really close to it?
Its endangered, once thought to be extinct. Like i said, its easily out competed so it relied of large harbivores to eat/trample the competition.
Would be cool to see it make a comeback on some of the buffalo reservations. Don’t know if those places have quite the herd size to make it feasible. Amazing what some of the vast herds could do to transform the prairies back in the day.
I just and to add in here that supporting your non-native bees with clover is still worthwhile. Clovers can be a good add on if you want a traditional lawn
Clover is non-native in my area. I’ve witnessed native bumblebees visiting clover, but they show a much stronger preference for larger forbs, both native and non-native. For one, they can’t nap on clover (too small, I assume, even when allowed to grow to full size). Additionally, I haven’t seen pollinators other than honeybees and bumblebees at the clover, whereas other flowers attract dozens of various species (as well as their predators, creating a fuller ecosystem).
For sure native forbs can attract more. Its not an either or, but rather a both situation. Pollinator friendly Forbs where you can and clover within your turf lawn. I personally also have been adding self-heal (mild successfully) and creeping thyme (not that successfully) into my lawn. Its a move on all front situation in my yard
For sure, I didn’t mean to negate your comment (more of a “yes and”). However I do think it is important in these conversations to acknowledge that clover isn’t a great option for yards when it comes to supporting pollinators (native or otherwise), just a better one. That said, for folks who have to have a grass yard (for rental agreement, HOA, etc reasons), clover is a great add-in. I prefer the native self-heal myself, but it has similar purple flowers and growth pattern to the invasive creeping charlie, so clover is probably the appealing, stealthier choice of the two in many places.
There are some native clovers but otherwise yes
There are native clovers, but they aren’t really what you would utilize for ground cover.
Just wait till this guy hears about moss…
When I got a lawn, I didn’t do anything to it. It gets mowed every two weeks, but that’s it. After a particularly nasty drought most of the grass died. A few months later, clover started popping up on its own. It’s much better than grass, and now a bunny likes to visit us.
She’s #4 all time on there! I took this better picture this week but hadn’t posted it yet because it’s “babie week” there.
We get lots of bunny visitors at my place as well, but I noticed a couple have crazy big ticks around their ears. Luckily we haven’t gotten any in the house or anything, but has def made me less “pro-bunny” lately.
The rabbit in my yard had a pretty big tick on it. I just don’t walk where the tall plants are.
That shouldn’t make you less pro-bunny. It should make you more pro-possum. It’s an ecosystem. We threw it out of wack, but there are things that help keep tick populations down.
Possums don’t actually eat ticks (but we should still be pro-possum for other environmental reasons)
https://outdoor.wildlifeillinois.org/articles/debunking-the-myth-opossums-dont-eat-ticks
Turns out they will eat ticks in a study that only fed them ticks.
And they don’t even have proof that they ate those ticks- odds are the ticks were all embedded in their skin lol
Unfortunately the thing about opossums, as well as chickens and guinea fowl, being tick control may not be empirically supported.
https://extension.psu.edu/do-chickens-guinea-fowl-or-opossums-control-ticks
I would love to be proven wrong if anyone else has other info :(
Also chicken right?
This is 100% true
Admen for companies like Monsanto in the 1950s pushed the idea of the “green lawn” and rebranded clover as a weed to push herbicides and nitrogen fertilizers
Clover is resilient with lower water needs, it’s softer, it naturally deters pests, and most importantly it pulls nitrogen from the air and pushes it into the soil.
What’s funny and sad is now they’ve come full circle and today’s admen realized they could capitalize on the instagram trend of undoing the damage of the admen from 70 years ago
Once again advertisers prove that they are absolute scumbags with no ethics whatsoever who will value making a dollar over destroying ecosystems
Decided to go with clover this summer. Fuck me it’s expensive! And now I learn it used to be filler?! Robbery.
advertisers prove that they are absolute scumbags
I honestly didn’t believe that until, one day, a scumbag came calling with a ‘brilliant IT idea’ that only myself and my colleagues could build. I’ll put it this way: we realized that this guy would literally not stop until he covered the entire world with advertising, as though we were supposed to live in an environment modeled after a college dorm corkboard. No thanks.
Have you not seen how advertising destroys everything it touches and co-opts every space, continually intruding further and further to become more “effective”
I know you have because you are here on the internet. Depending on your age you have likely seen the decline of sites like reddit, youtube, google, etc. if your older you’ve probably seen newspapers get destroyed in a similar fashion, television, etc. outdoor advertising (billboards, in stores, signage, etc) has only become more obtrusive, offensive, and ever present through the decades as well
Admen find a space where people are, shove themselves into it, take that space over, then demand control of that space to enforce that their ads are “respected”. With the modern internet they shamelessly steal tons of data about you so their ad spends can be more “effective” because again, they have no ethics whatsoever. They don’t care if that complete violates your privacy and they don’t care if that data continually gets breached when it’s handed through 80 brokers. “Well, I wasn’t the one that did it! Doesn’t matter that I perpetuate a system that’s totally fucked” Except for cases like Google and meta of course where they absolutely were the ones who were. But again, no ethics whatsoever
Fuck advertisers. Advertisers are the bane of existence. They dont believe in their products, they just believe in soulless consumerism. They fight unfair; if you create systems to evade their bullshit they use their power to destroy those systems (going back to things like tivo). They are the devil, the antichrist. Kill all admen and make the world a better place. If you work in advertising take a long hard look at your life and figure out where it all went wrong, and then go work a more respectable job like being the person who changes urinal ice in strip clubs.
How am I supposed to use my Turf Builder® every 2 months, 4 times a year?
Oh my god is this that bodybuilding forum post, are you doing the bodybuilding forum post thing
Not specifically, but I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought of that when I read this.
You skip the winter. For example, maybe you apply it in March, May, July, and September. (Or April, June, August, and October? IDK I don’t actually fertilize my lawn.)
I could help but last time I tried to fertilize a lawn I got arrested.
Oh yeah, didn’t think about that. Thanks!
The snow must grow!
Sounds vaguely socialist
You spread it every two months, four times. Then stop.
We really need to outlaw advertizing that double as disinformation campaigns.
That’s like 99.9% of ads.
Exactly
Just in case people are wondering about this, it’s true. Clover is a legume. Meaning it gets nitrogen from the air and puts it into the soil. This effectively means the clover is fertilizing the soil. Seeing lots of clover can be a sign that the soil lacks nitrogen and can’t grow much else.
Slight clarification: Dutch Clover (trifolium repens) under nitrogen deficient conditions, at temperatures above 50F and below 95F, and with the correct rhyzobium species present, with soil pH between 5.5 & 8.0, can produce nitrogen that is stored in its tissue.
When clover is mowed and the clippings mulched back into the soil, the decomposition of the leaves adds nitrogen to the soil. If you remove the clippings the nitrogen goes with it.
Clover doesn’t just release more nitrogen into the soil, it takes a bit of work.
When clover is mowed and the clippings mulched back into the soil, the decomposition of the leaves adds nitrogen to the soil. If you remove the clippings the nitrogen goes with it.
Yes, “green manure” is taking nitrogen fixing crops (like clover and beans and peanuts) and to mulch them while still green, and incorporate that decomposing mulch into the soil you’re using. That adds nitrogen in fewer steps than the traditional way of using animal manure (where the nitrogen still ultimately comes from plants).
Of course, the modern Haber process also fixes nitrogen through industrial chemistry rather than agriculture, so most commercial fertilizer today gets its nitrogen from chemical synthesis of atmospheric nitrogen into ammonia.
50°F = 10°C
95°F = 35°CInteresting, I thought the N would be stored in the little nodules on the roots? For other legumes you’re supposed to cut them of, not pull them out, so that the roots with their nodules remain and release the N during the rotting process. Is this bullshit?
The nodules in the roots are the happy little homes that the plant provides for the bacteria to grow and reproduce in.
It’s the production location, not the storage location. The nitrogen is incorporated into proteins and used all over the plant. It’s especially concentrated in legume seeds.
For example winter peas can produce up to 400lbs/acre of nitrogen during its growing season (newer varieties like Icicles etc). If you removed the top and the seeds you remove around 350-375lbs of N. So you get 25-50lns of N per acre if you leave just the roots. So it’s best to incorporate the entire plant in when the seeds reach soft dough stage.
Iirc, it’s stored all over the plant. Any bits left on/in the ground will contribute to nitrogen in the soil.
I plant it in the walkways of my vegetable garden. Besides fixing nitrogen, it makes the Bees happy, and it’s tasty in salads and mixed greens.
Oh, and it’s super satisfying to walk on in barefeet
Oh, and it’s super satisfying to walk on in barefeet
Unless you happen upon one of those bees.
“I suddenly remembered my Charlemagne. Let my armies be the rocks and the trees and the
birds in the sky.Bees in the Clover”I have my own Bee army, we would never hurt each other .
Having been stung on the sole of my foot by a bee, I 100% don’t recommend it.
clover idolatry? 4chan iconography. This anon is just preaching to the choir. 🍀 ❗
OMG… Are you saying nature has better solutions than chemical companies?
Blasphemy.
Sorry, Monsanto found some of their GMO corn in your field after that comment. Time to give up the farm!
As a chemist, you made me laugh. But, there is really nothing natural about a lawn.
Of course not. You can’t monetize nature all that directly, so clearly it’s not “better”. /s
Anon is right, but ONLY ABOUT THIS!!! I’ve heard Nevada has been using this to conserve water. Im gonna put some on my lawn tomorrow.
Would planting clover in an already moist lawn be not a so great idea if you’re trying to keep moisture away from your house?
Clover is a great drought resistant “carpet” as a replacement for the water greedy grass yards (which are also largely impractical).
Also great for bee life and other pollinators. The reason they stopped putting it in lawns was because of selective herbicides that kill all plants EXCEPT grass and some marketing fuck-knuckle (string them all up and ban the teaching of marketing) decided that clover had to go so they could sell herbicides that also kill pollinating insects. Happened in the 50s I think.
some marketing fuck-knuckle (string them all up and ban the teaching of marketing)
Based, I love that this platform doesn’t remove morally correct comments like this one
