- cross-posted to:
- europe@feddit.org
- cross-posted to:
- europe@feddit.org
cross-posted from: https://mander.xyz/post/46886810
The American president has invited Canada to become his country’s “51st state,” an idea that has infuriated most of Canada’s 40 million citizens.
…
Hence this suggestion: Why not expand the EU to include Canada? Is that so far-fetched an idea? In any case, Canadians have actually considered the question themselves. In February 2025, a survey conducted by Abacus Data on a sample of 1,500 people found that 44% of those polled supported the idea, compared to 34% who opposed it. Better the 28th EU country than the 51st US state!
One might object: Canada is not European, as required for EU membership by Article 49 of the EU Treaty. But what does “European” actually mean? The word cannot be understood in a strictly geographic sense, or Cyprus, closer to Asia, would not be part of the EU. So the term must be understood in a cultural sense.
…
As [Canadian Prime Minister Mark] Carney said in Paris, in March: Thanks to its French and British roots, Canada is “the most European of non-European countries.” He speaks from experience, having served as governor of the Bank of England (a post that is assigned based on merit, not nationality). Culturally and ideologically, Canada is close to European democracies: It shares the same belief in the welfare state, the same commitment to multilateralism and the same rejection of the death penalty or uncontrolled firearms.
Moreover, Canada is a Commonwealth monarchy that shares a king with the United Kingdom.
…
Even short of a formal application, it would be wiser for Ottawa to strengthen its ties with European democracies rather than with the Chinese regime. The temptation is there: Just before heading to Davos, Carney signed an agreement with Beijing to lower tariffs on electric vehicles imported from China.
…
You must log in or # to comment.
The American president has invited Canada to become his country’s “51st state,”
Not invited.
He threatened to annex Canada.
He threatened to
annex Canada.-destroy Canada and take it for himself.
I know that’s basically what you said, but “annex” is too fancy a word for the folks who don’t get why we’re so pissed off about it.
Trump has the brain of a rapist. He thinks any woman would be honoured to be fucked by him. He applies this same thinking to other countries. He thinks any country would be honoured to be pillaged by the Untied States
IIRC, he has used both terms (among other threats).
Personally, as a European, I would be pro this happening if Canada wants to join and the EU is willing to let them join.
I get that geographically it wouldn’t make much sense, but culture is also important. Geographically, Belarus for example should join the EU instead of Canada, but I think most of us can agree that Belarus should not.
Canada does share a border with Denmark, so, geographically, it’s feasible.
And another with France.
Lets give Alberta to the US and then take the rest
No, not that meny albertens actually want the split.
The yugoslavians didn’t either 🤷
OK, just draw 5 foot a circle around every Albertan who owns a confederate flag pickup truck. That can be American territory, the rest can be Canadian.
As an Irish man I think Canadians should get grand fathered in automatically. Not the EU. But the NATO2 ELECTRIC BOOGALOO
NATWO
NA2.
Canadian politicians make all these BULLSHIT overtures about opening up trade and building up ties to the EU.
But it’s been a year, and we’re still stuck with just Apple and Google for phone options, with nothing like the fairphone available.
Someone should really smack Carney upside the head on this one.
This will never happen since the Americans would see it as intentionally antagonizing. They’ve made it clear they see the Western hemisphere as theirs.
In fact, in response they may take more deliberate action to capture control of Canada coercively. Being part of the EU would provide no meaningful protection against that. It would unnecessarily invite a more aggressive American posture towards Canada.
If Carney did this it would be one of the biggest blunders in modern political history. Thankfully he’s a pretty smart guy. There’s very little value in joining the EU for Canada.
There may be overlap in values but Europe is not what it used to be. Much of the worlds economic growth will be driven by the global south for the next thirty years so Carney is wise to prioritize carefully calculated deals with those countries.
He will be travelling to India next, let’s see what he can secure as far as a trade deal goes. The EU and India are celebrating their recently signed free trade agreement, perhaps Carney will follow suit.
Trump to annex Canada, the way he annexed underage girls.
The problem is the EU is still designed as an institution that’s a vassal to US interests and that they are being eroded from the bottom up by far right parties financed by that same old suspects. The EU would need to start being able to throw countries like Hungary out, they would need to begin creating their own serious alternative to NATO, and they would need to put leadership over the bureaucracy from national disputes and interests to be the sort of Union that could accept Canada within it.
The problem is also that every single election year for a EU member is another chance for the foreign financed far right to have more control over their nation and the EU as an extension. There are EU countries that are pretty divided up at the moment and even with proportional representation between a right that wants easy money and has made sure to tank any government that does not have them as a majority (or at least a majority block with the far right) and a far right that is an expert at scamming and lying to potential voters within their pedoligarch fueled social network bubbles, the outlook is not good.
We need more obvious solutions, not obvious problems. /s
The solution is obvious, most are hoping for it to suddenly pop into their front page.
Occam disagrees. /s Also, Happy New Year!
You have no ideia Sir… Stay away from EU, thank me later
That has worked wonderfully for the UK, hasn’t it?
If it was that much of a hassle to leave then why should we join in the first place? What if Europe goes to shit 5-10-15 years down the line and we’re stuck.
They aren’t comparable. One is the prospect of a forced marriage, the other is being asked to join a semi functional study group.
Forced marriage to a violent, abusive bully, vs study group with a disorganized slightly autistic nerd who’s really smart. I don’t want to spoil the endings, but I think we should all be able to figure out which one is going to have a positive impact on our lives and which one’s going to turn us into a domestic violence statistic.
I’m already jealous of Canadians, to give them passport free travel and the option to move anywhere in Europe… fuuuuck me
I joined a Canada based company in the last year. Every time we chat abooot non-work stuff I find yet another reason to be envious of them.
id go live with my brother in germany for a while, id love to see the black forest and the old castles. or go look for some amber chunks in the water of the baltic sea.
The black forest is soooooo beautiful right now! But the castles and the beaches are better during summer.
Hope you get to experience some of it, but also hope it’ll be more for a vacation than for seeking refuge.
Quick fun fact: Morocco considers itself European in a geographical sense, or at least they once did and applied for membership.
I don’t think Morocco is super European culturally though. There are values they very much disagree with most Europeans on, such as LGBTQ rights.
I have no issue with Morocco as a trade partner, or easy travel between Morocco and the EU, but I don’t think we’d like the vibes they’d bring to the European Parliament, etc.
There’s something to be gained from diversity of course, but I do think their society’s values are a bit too different from most of ours.
Don’t take this badly but generally when people spout that “their society’s values are different from ours” about how countries like Morocco and Turkey wouldn’t be a fit for the EU what they really mean is “they’re Muslims”.
You haven’t see much of Europe if you think LGBTQ rights are looked at similarly all over.
My own native Portugal used to be pretty homophobic 30 years ago and there are still plenty of people around who think like that even though the country’s culture tends towards perceptiveness rather than judgement.
Or just go to Hungary outside a main city and ask people what they think about Transexuality.
Don’t confuse Northern Europe and Scandinavia with most of Europe.
Frankly whenever I look at a country like Turkey or Morocco I mainly see my own country, Greece or even Spain 50 or 60 years ago, with pretty similar values - though a different main religion - and average levels of education. Pretty backwards by today’s standards, but one can hardly claim Portugal, Greece and Spain weren’t European back then.
Looking at my own country I would say universal education is what made most of the difference in those things you seem to think are “European values”.
The main problem with Morocco is as others pointed out it not being properly Democratic, the whole problem of Western Sahara and its self-determination, the huge wealth-imbalance between it and the EU (read: fear of mass immigration from there) and European Islamophobes (who are not just the European far-right).
You’re not wrong. I don’t think a 99.whatever percent Muslim country would be a good culture fit. I would in fact say the same about majority-Christian or majority-Jewish countries if they’re taking their religion a bit too seriously. In fact I’m slightly worried about how religious some EU countries are, such as Poland.
The thing is that some of these Islamic countries still take the religion too seriously, much more so than most of us “westerners” (USA being a notable exception but hey I don’t think they’d be a good cultural fit for EU either).
There’s pretty liberal majority-Muslim countries out there and it’s quite possible that Morocco and Turkey will also get there.
My own native Portugal used to be pretty homophobic 30 years ago and there are still plenty of people around who think like that even though the country’s culture tends towards perceptiveness rather than judgement.
Same for Estonia, we’re pretty accepting nowadays (with exceptions of course) and hell even 15-20 years ago it was very different. And yes, this was when we were already in the EU.
But LGBTQ rights were just one example. There’s also insane laws surrounding alcohol (though mostly don’t affect you if you’re not born in Morocco and don’t consume in public, the laws are particularly draconian for Moroccan Muslims and yes, they discriminate by religion).
Overall I just don’t think any society that still lets religion dictate how people have to live has a place in the EU. Which doesn’t mean I dislike Muslims in particular. I don’t want people of ANY religion telling me their god has any say in how other people have to live. Religion is fine, but secularism is needed.
And yes, there are the other issues you mentioned. In fact once some of those are taken care of, it’s quite likely that their society will also become more liberal naturally.
Being not 100% a democracy and having massive nationalistic tensions with an equally powerful neighbor is a pretty big pill to swallow, as well.
Having nationalistic tendencencies seems on par with many European countries today.
Nationalistic tensions. As in, they’re locked in a long-term military rivalry with Algeria. Only Greece really falls into that category as far as I know.
Well, since no one else considered them to be geographially European it is of little importance. But culture wise? Definitely not if you ask me. I see better chances for Turkey after some minor (read: major) shifts in politics.
Honestly, geographically I can see how they’d consider to be almost European. The strait of Gibraltar isn’t that wide, it’s a shorter distance for them to cross to Europe than it is for me to cross to Finland from Estonia!
Turkiye has been waiting in line for EU membership since the 1987
After the ten founding members in 1949, Turkey became one of the first new members (the 13th member) of the Council of Europe in 1950. The country became an associate member of the European Economic Community (EEC) in 1963 and was an associate member of the Western European Union from 1992 to its end in 2011. Turkey signed a Customs Union agreement with the EU in 1995 and was officially recognised as a candidate for full membership on 12 December 1999, at the Helsinki summit of the European Council.
But… Turkiye’s a majority Muslim country. So Portugal, Spain, Austria, Finland, Sweden, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia, Bulgaria, Romania, and Croatia all got to jump the queue ahead of it.
Eh, I think it’s less about being Muslim and more about the human rights violations.
Explain the introduction of Cyprus, on those terms
Real real bad example, as Cyprus was literaly invaded and is currently militarily occupied by Turkey
How dirty money and Russian riches flow through Cyprus, a gateway to the EU
Possibly one of the most corrupt and compromised governments on earth
The unoccupied part of Cyprus is a functional democracy. At the time of accession, it was hoped that the EU would catalyze a solution to the Cyprus problem altogether. Greek-Cypriot nationalists fucked that up.
The unoccupied part of Cyprus is a functional democracy.
There’s two ways to read this and one of them is very funny.
But sure, put all your chips on Kyriakos Mitsotakis and tell me about the freedoms enjoyed by Greek Cypriots in 2026.
At the time of accession, it was hoped that the EU would catalyze a solution to the Cyprus problem altogether. Greek-Cypriot nationalists fucked that up.
Inducting Cyprus while denying longtime NATO ally and European trading partner Turkiye was already guaranteed to land flat. Opening the floodgates for money and military aid into Cyprus, via the EU relaxed trade and travel rules, yielded predictable results.
Get your Greeks straight buddy. Mitsotakis is not Cypriot. I also have no idea what you mean by “military aid flooding into Cyprus”. Cyprus has a tiny national guard.
That said, with the Helsinki agreement in 1999, Greece pinned its hopes to normalization with “longtime NATO ally” and regional bully to a europeanization of the relationship. The hope was that getting Turkey to commit to European values would “tame” its aggression towards Greece and Cyprus. Then came Erdogan.
Mitsotakis is not Cypriot.
He’s the President of the government that claims the Greek-Nationalist occupied end of the island.
Greece pinned its hopes to normalization with “longtime NATO ally” and regional bully to a europeanization of the relationship
How do you Europeanize your relationship when you refuse to see your neighbor as European?
The biggest problem with Turkey is not religion, it’s the stunted democracy, the abstention from various international treaties, the occupation of half of Cyprus and the active casus belli against Greece.
deleted by creator
I don’t think I want to be chained up to the UK.
They’re not a good example these days.
the UK is also barely european. also their politics feel very american
You’re not trapped with the UK; they’re trapped with us.
Besides, Spain and Denmark seem kinda cool for study-buddies, and we can learn a bit about how to take care of people instead of corporations if we hang out a bit.
Why not CANZUKEU ;-)
CANZUKEU
Gesundheit
See, we’re speaking German already.
Both were being called for under Trudeau, he couldn’t make it work.
deleted by creator
A lot of the time it felt like he would only do something if it benefited the Americans.
I was glad he stepped down, but it still illustrates that people wanted it.
deleted by creator
Meanwhile USA east and west coast are looking into joining Canada (and EU?) while Trump is looking into convincing Canada’s oil producing provinces to join becoming states.
People wanted change. They’re going to get it. Not the one they voted for probably.
Any US state that wanted to join Canada would have to reckon with the “guns” thing. Even states that align with Canada in most ways still have a lot of gun nuts, even left-leaning gun nuts. Meanwhile, Canada has slowly been tightening already fairly restrictive gun laws. One glance across the border makes Canadians convinced that guns just escalate problems, they don’t solve them.
Any US state joining Canada would not be feasible for Canada, as it would simply be a peaceful American take over.
Even if just Washington joined l, they population of the state is 8 million.
That would mean 16% of the voters in Canada’s next election would be former Americans and basically decide the direction the whole country goes via peaceful democratic votes. Do you think Canada would remain Canada over the long term or do you think it would change and become closer to what America currently is?
16% is a majority?
Doesn’t have to be a majority with our idiotic first past the post voting system.
You can get a party with majority of the seats with as little as 30-40 % of the votes
Combined with Alberta and a few other locations you could easily never get a liberal or NDP government again and everyone slides to the right.
So, is 16% smaller than 40%?
Do you just give up reading a comment once you find a point that semi-supports a smartass comment that pops into your head?
Combined with Alberta and a few other locations you could easily never get a liberal or NDP government again and everyone slides to the right.
Was the other half
Guns are one of those things that don’t solve problems, until they have to.
Sure, right, like how they’re supposed to be used in an uprising against a tyrant… but when there’s currently a tyrant in charge in the US, nobody’s doing anything.
Or how they’re great at stopping a “bad guy” home intruder, but that home intruder never actually intrudes, instead the gun is just used in a domestic violence situation, or for suicide.
oi, using statistics instead of anecdotal experience is cheating
when there’s currently a tyrant in charge in the US, nobody’s doing anything.
Because anyone who’s realistic enough to want that guy out of office is also realistic enough to know that a gun, or even a few thousand guns, won’t do much against rocket-armed aircraft and exploding drones, even if they were willing to escalate to violence. The last time a group of citizens with ordinary firearms had a real chance against an army was around 1880 (just before the invention of the automatic machine gun). It kinda-sorta-almost sometimes appears to work in spats in the developing world because the objective there is to get the army to decide holding the area isn’t worth the resources and it should go home. That ain’t gonna happen in a civil war in the States.
Of course, the fact that the American “right to bear arms” is a joke just makes it all the more infuriating.
is also realistic enough to know that a gun, or even a few thousand guns, won’t do much against rocket-armed aircraft…
Which is what the civilized word has been saying to the US for decades now, but gun nuts in the US insist that people need to be armed so they can rise up against a tyrant.
Meanwhile, Canada has slowly been tightening already fairly restrictive gun laws.
Tightening them for no good reason, the whole kick-off for the “buyback” program was the 2020 Nova Scotia mass shooting which wasn’t caused by someone who had a possession and acquisition license or had legally obtained their firearms.
It’s been 6 years on now and firearms owners are on the edge of their seats because the government intends to criminalize hundreds of thousands of people by the end of October.
Everyone knows licensed firearm owners are not to blame for what happened in 2020 hence the major pushback from provinces, police organizations and firearm owners.
For no good reason other than guns lead to deaths. That’s a pretty good reason.
Cars are just as deadly as firearms however, we aren’t going and saying Red Honda Civics cause a larger percentage of fatality rates so we’re just going to ban them.
It makes no sense just like how our current government has decided to ban hundreds of thousands of firearms based on appearance and not function.
And while people bicker about licensed firearm owners statistically speaking majority of firearm related crime in Canada is caused by illegal firearms that are typically smuggled in, shouldn’t our resources not focus on the root cause of the issues we face?
Cars should be much more heavily regulated, IMO. But, they have escaped outright bans because they serve a clearly important purpose that’s beneficial to society. A gun doesn’t.
Cars should be much more heavily regulated, IMO.
We can agree to disagree on this sentiment here, licensed firearms owners receive a daily background check by the RCMP whereas those who have a drivers license do not, the only time a person with drivers license gets a background check is when they’re pulled over and checked by a cop.
they have escaped outright bans because they serve a clearly important purpose that’s beneficial to society. A gun doesn’t.
So you’re saying farmers who defend their property from varmints don’t serve a purpose to society? How about folks up north in research stations typically in polar bear territory? How about people who simply enjoy forest camping and want a means of defence against a predator?
Firearms certainly serve a purpose to society.
farmers who defend their property from varmints don’t serve a purpose to society
Farmers serve a purpose. Guns don’t.
Australia had a huge gun buyback and the suicide rate dropped by thirty percent!
Canada is an independent country, thank you.
All European countries are still independent sovereign countries. You can leave the EU whenever you want.
Where are your nukes?
This makes me sad for our future.
Every single conversation about nationalism devolves into “strongest monkey with biggest stick”.
In the case of Canada I think that is inherently the problem. US Republican’s have been complaining specifically about Canada since about 2016 and how they aren’t meeting their NATO requirements, have no plans to ever meet them, and how Canada is basically free loading. I remember an article from ~2019 where a Canadian economist was quoted saying that if Canadians are going to be taxed more politicians are not going to spend that money on defense spending over programs which improve quality of life because defense isn’t a concern for Canadians due to being next door to the US.
All this talk about Canada freeloading has some merit, but from a US perspective it completely ignores the huge economic benefits the US/Canada relationship has had for the US. At its heart a significant portion of the US has strong opinions and beliefs about the importance of military preparedness and a fascination with naive blind fairness. In their minds the US and Canada have a good relationship, but Canada isn’t doing their fair share and that makes them angry. For them they see Canada as a mooch and a bad friend.
Canada not investing in it’s military defense both caused US conservative politicians to be upset and also puts Canada in the uncomfortable position they are in now. So yeah, Canada has a “strongest monkey with the biggest stick” problem in that they don’t have much of a stick.
Right, all good points.
However, the biggest stick fighting with smaller stick ends up with everyone dead.
Oh yeah, definitely agree, that’s why I said the Republican view point is naive and blind.
