It’s a complete breach of basic social etiquette to sit down at somebody’s table and talk to them like you know them, it’s baffling to me that you don’t get that- actually it’s not that baffling really
I was in hospitality for 15 years until I injured my back and had to leave the industry. I never sat at people’s tables when taking orders, but do you have any idea what it’s like to stand 10 hours a day, most days with no break at all? The amount of foot pain? And you get told off if you sit down even when there’s no customers. Sometimes customers would rock up and get upset that I was sitting on a stool when it had been like 3 hours since the last customers had been through and I was doing stock take at the till. Like what the fuck. I’m not your servant, you’re not paying nearly enough for that. Get off your high horse and get over yourself.
I now have life long back pain and nerve damage after spinal surgery at 30 because of the stress hospitality put my body through and people like you were part of the reason. Don’t go out if you don’t want to talk to people.
WTF? They are a human, not your servant. This is 21st century, not 18th, and it was fucked up back then too. In fact, western service culture needs to die as a whole. Get the fuck out of that chair and go pick up your own damn food. There’s no good reason to have waiters except making lazy middle class people feel wealthier than they actually are, it doesn’t save anyone any time or make things more efficient.
You’re paying them though, both sides agreed to play the role. It doesn’t matter what your opinion on the matter is, the customer paid to be treated like royalty and it’s usually something the restaurant wants to offer and so pays their waiters to do.
I’d happily stand up and get my own food, in fact this is why I generally avoid restaurants, but imo ter “roleplay” is included in the price. It’s like those maid cafes in japan. Sure they “are not your servant”, but this is part of the experience, so you could argue that by ruining the experience you paid for, they “robbed” you.
That’s my issue with this bullshit, it reproduces a fucked up hierarchy. You might believe it is roleplay or whatever, but in fact the material relations are the same: a typically more affluent person is paying a less well-off person to be their servant for the day.
As long as there is demand for it, it will continue happening. You can choose to not encourage it, but this desire to be treated reverently by someone of lower status is something deeply engrained in humanity, I doubt it’s ever going away. Pretty much every civilization throughout the ages and around the world has had some form of it.
Being served at a restaurant allows someone who’s not upper class to get a taste of what it could feel like. What’s the difference compared to an office worker indirectly paying the janitor to clean his toilet? They chose the job and are getting paid for it. Maybe it’s degrading, but everyone’s got to start somewhere. Remove those jobs and these people just won’t make money, which is just a worst outcome for everyone involved.
this desire to be treated reverently by someone of lower status is something deeply engrained in humanity, I doubt it’s ever going away.
This can be overcome, just as we already (mostly) overcame men’s desire to look down at women as lesser beings, or look at people of other tribes/nations/races as slaves to be exploited. It’s not complicated, humans are social beings, and tend to like whatever is considered “good” in their social circles; we as a society have the power to redefine what “good” means.
To look at people in capitalist society and conclude that human nature is egoism, is like looking at people in a factory where pollution is destroying their lungs and saying that it is human nature to cough
What’s the difference compared to an office worker indirectly paying the janitor to clean his toilet?
There is a bit of a difference here though: it takes time and logistical effort (e.g. getting cleaning supplies) to clean a toilet; it doesn’t take almost any time or effort to pick up your own food from the kitchen, the only effort exerted by the waiter is that of “service”, which is the problematic part. I agree it would be good if all workers had one shift of their week cleaning their workspace though, it would provide useful perspective and eliminate a lot of bad habits that makes the cleaner’s job unnecessarily difficult.
They chose the job and are getting paid for it. Maybe it’s degrading, but everyone’s got to start somewhere. Remove those jobs and these people just won’t make money, which is just a worst outcome for everyone involved.
This is incorrect, they didn’t “choose” the job, they are forced to do it because they can’t get any other job and they will die on the streets if they don’t take it. If we provide better education opportunities and stop stealing value from labor, there would be no need in useless “entry-level” jobs. Perhaps there would still be a need for janitors and garbage collectors and such, but those jobs have to be well-paid and taken seriously, just as any other job; it has to really be a choice rather than something forced upon poor people who can’t get education in our fucked up society.
Hate to break it to you, but they are my servant, they are employed by the person to do their job which is to bring me my food, I am not there to pretend I want to be their friend.
I mean, sure, it’s a bit like certain people in 19th century US saying “they are my slaves, I paid for them, I feed them, their job is to pick my cotton! They are known as SLAVES you dopes!”
My disagreement is categorical, there should not be slaves nor servants in a fair and just society.
You’re the one talking about servants and slaves, these people are there to serve me that is their fucking job. I am not there to pretend to be their friend.
I’m on the other side of that.
I’m not paying to pretend be your friend I’m paying you to serve me my food get the fuck out of that chair… is my thought.
I had this happen to me once in San Francisco and me and wife were taken aback and offended.
Get angry at the right people.
lmfao
don’t you know not to denigrate the lordship by seating yourself on equal elevation while receiving orders‽
It’s a complete breach of basic social etiquette to sit down at somebody’s table and talk to them like you know them, it’s baffling to me that you don’t get that- actually it’s not that baffling really
I agree you shouldn’t do it but to say you’re offended is weird as fuck and wreaks of classism.
I was in hospitality for 15 years until I injured my back and had to leave the industry. I never sat at people’s tables when taking orders, but do you have any idea what it’s like to stand 10 hours a day, most days with no break at all? The amount of foot pain? And you get told off if you sit down even when there’s no customers. Sometimes customers would rock up and get upset that I was sitting on a stool when it had been like 3 hours since the last customers had been through and I was doing stock take at the till. Like what the fuck. I’m not your servant, you’re not paying nearly enough for that. Get off your high horse and get over yourself.
I now have life long back pain and nerve damage after spinal surgery at 30 because of the stress hospitality put my body through and people like you were part of the reason. Don’t go out if you don’t want to talk to people.
You’re not paying them anything my dude they are labouring under capitalism like you are.
I’m taken aback and offended by your attitude and if that’s irrelevant to you, congrats, you understand
Yeah right? This is the behavior that causes someone to get caught drunk driving and tell the cop “My taxes pay your salary, let me go”
WTF? They are a human, not your servant. This is 21st century, not 18th, and it was fucked up back then too. In fact, western service culture needs to die as a whole. Get the fuck out of that chair and go pick up your own damn food. There’s no good reason to have waiters except making lazy middle class people feel wealthier than they actually are, it doesn’t save anyone any time or make things more efficient.
You’re paying them though, both sides agreed to play the role. It doesn’t matter what your opinion on the matter is, the customer paid to be treated like royalty and it’s usually something the restaurant wants to offer and so pays their waiters to do.
I’d happily stand up and get my own food, in fact this is why I generally avoid restaurants, but imo ter “roleplay” is included in the price. It’s like those maid cafes in japan. Sure they “are not your servant”, but this is part of the experience, so you could argue that by ruining the experience you paid for, they “robbed” you.
That’s my issue with this bullshit, it reproduces a fucked up hierarchy. You might believe it is roleplay or whatever, but in fact the material relations are the same: a typically more affluent person is paying a less well-off person to be their servant for the day.
As long as there is demand for it, it will continue happening. You can choose to not encourage it, but this desire to be treated reverently by someone of lower status is something deeply engrained in humanity, I doubt it’s ever going away. Pretty much every civilization throughout the ages and around the world has had some form of it.
Being served at a restaurant allows someone who’s not upper class to get a taste of what it could feel like. What’s the difference compared to an office worker indirectly paying the janitor to clean his toilet? They chose the job and are getting paid for it. Maybe it’s degrading, but everyone’s got to start somewhere. Remove those jobs and these people just won’t make money, which is just a worst outcome for everyone involved.
This can be overcome, just as we already (mostly) overcame men’s desire to look down at women as lesser beings, or look at people of other tribes/nations/races as slaves to be exploited. It’s not complicated, humans are social beings, and tend to like whatever is considered “good” in their social circles; we as a society have the power to redefine what “good” means.
There is a bit of a difference here though: it takes time and logistical effort (e.g. getting cleaning supplies) to clean a toilet; it doesn’t take almost any time or effort to pick up your own food from the kitchen, the only effort exerted by the waiter is that of “service”, which is the problematic part. I agree it would be good if all workers had one shift of their week cleaning their workspace though, it would provide useful perspective and eliminate a lot of bad habits that makes the cleaner’s job unnecessarily difficult.
This is incorrect, they didn’t “choose” the job, they are forced to do it because they can’t get any other job and they will die on the streets if they don’t take it. If we provide better education opportunities and stop stealing value from labor, there would be no need in useless “entry-level” jobs. Perhaps there would still be a need for janitors and garbage collectors and such, but those jobs have to be well-paid and taken seriously, just as any other job; it has to really be a choice rather than something forced upon poor people who can’t get education in our fucked up society.
It’s not “western service culture”. It’s the US’s
Hate to break it to you, but they are my servant, they are employed by the person to do their job which is to bring me my food, I am not there to pretend I want to be their friend.
EDIT: THEY ARE KNOWN AS SERVERS YOU DOPES
I mean, sure, it’s a bit like certain people in 19th century US saying “they are my slaves, I paid for them, I feed them, their job is to pick my cotton! They are known as SLAVES you dopes!”
My disagreement is categorical, there should not be slaves nor servants in a fair and just society.
It’s like talking to a literal idiot here.
You’re the one talking about servants and slaves, these people are there to serve me that is their fucking job. I am not there to pretend to be their friend.
Pretend to be your friend? They were just taking your order. Why do you care if they are sitting or standing while they do?
Damn dude I honestly feel bad for you if this is how you view life lol. Sounds like a pretty miserable existence ☹️
What a rude thing to say, I don’t think you feel bad for them at all, sounds like you just like being mean under the veneer of sympathy.
Damn dude I honestly feel bad for you if this is how you view life lol. Sounds like a pretty miserable existence ☹️
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