https://feddit.org/post/13994826/7165181
Everything I downvoted was because I genuinely do not think it’s good. Like meat is not going to cure cancer.
I actually really like eating meat I just try to life a life that gives others room to enjoy this earth too without mutually destroying it.
Please tell me how I am the asshole :)
Boo this man!
YDI.
YDI.
If you go around down voting everything, that’s not acting in good faith. Down voting the post, yeah, that’s one thing and it’s perfectly fine to down vote posts that are (to your best knowledge) misinformation.
The problem starts when you go into comment sections and down vote everything. See, if you’re doing that, it’s ignoring whether or not the comments are on for the post. Disagreement isn’t a valid reason to vote bomb an entire comment section. That’s what an asshole does.
Now, I have done plenty of down voting in that community. But no blanket knee jerk vote sprees. That’s where you cross from reasonable opposition into just trying to fuck with people.
It doesn’t even matter what the topic is for this community. It isn’t about validating or invalidating your opinion of subject, it’s about whether or not the mod action was justified based on your actions. And they absolutely were.
That was the only comment I voted on. Because I did not see the person being helpful based on their posts. I did not vote spree the other comment sections. I did vote on the posts… I would not call that downvoting of posts in the community kneejerk. The statement the mod gave is not true I checked to make absolutely sure.
Thank you for elaborating though.
Everything I downvoted was because I genuinely do not think it’s good.
That’s what you said in your post. Everything implies that you voted on more than one thing.
I’m not sure why you would down vote multiple posts instead of blocking a community, but it does change things a little as long as it wasn’t blanket voting where you just went through and hit the down button arbitrarily on a long line of posts. If that’s what you were doing, it doesn’t change the YDI part, because that’s inevitably going to get you banned from any community at some point. The question would become one of threshold; how many did you arbitrarily down vote rather than the fact of doing it at all.
If you just down voted them as you came across them scrolling the all feed, you’d only have hit maybe five or six based on the slow posting of that community. So, if it’s more than that, you had to have gone to the community directly specifically to down vote, and that’s pretty shitty behavior, ban worthy at that.
If it was less than that, then jet absolutely power tripped. You can’t determine the intent of the user from less than a handful of votes, particularly if they’re recent posts.
But, hey, that’s what this community is about, figuring out where the boundaries of what lemmy as a whole consider acceptable mores of moderation and user behavior.
No I did go to the community to check it out, that part tracks, yes I downvoted a few posts. The cooking stuff I downvoted I also do not agree with (the beef chart excludes the head from the edible parts, the ribeye cooling one is in my opinion way over the top, a simple cast iron skillet does the job. The blended steak, meat bagels and meat cinnamon rolls I don’t think are a good idea. The brisquet price comparison I also do not agree with as I think that price does not make that big of a difference in comparison to the way to cook it, but on that one I definitely get how I should have been more open minded).
I think the interesting part is wether I should be allowed to be in opposition on most of a community or not. I think that we are a community on Lemmy as a whole and that it is ok to discuss things. I can still see why brigading is problematic. Then it comes down to the definition of good faith which is arguable and there it is interesting wether there can be good faith in participating in a community whilst being opposed to the main lines. I am not even in fundamental opposition about eating (and enjoying!) meat so I would have guessed that I acted in good faith. I guess I could see why jet did get offended and I guess I take a more lenient approach on the two Comms I mod. That being said there is probably significantly less contestation around the communities I mod.
That being said there is probably significantly less contestation around the communities I mod.
That’s fair, I’m happy to unban you if I have your word that you will be less hostile going forward. Yes - I consider downvoting to be hostility
The Carnivore community gets lots of negative attention, right now we are transitioning to a new instance so all the previous blocks people had don’t work and its a sensitive time.
No, if downvotes with things I don’t agree with are considered hostile I don’t think it’s a good idea. I don’t think I want to interact with this carnivore sub on an ongoing basis but I was interested in wether general participation on Lemmy regardless of the community is welcomed or if bubble building is the new meta.
Fair enough, i’m glad you have the resolution you wanted from this YPTB post.
Pretty sure any community would consider it hostile if you only downvote and never upvote in that comm
You could probably be just fine down voting only if you did it judiciously. Down voting a weeks worth of posts in a day is always going to look spammy.
Assuming honesty in all that (and that is what I’m assuming, no reason to do otherwise), I definitely call that good faith. Absolutely.
I also tend to think that opposition can be done with respect and decency (with the glaring exception of bigotry that deserves no respect, but that’s off topic and I only mention it to hopefully avoid the watabouts). I think my opposition to some of the posts and comments in the carnivore communities have been done respectfully, I’ve at least tried to be respectful.
Mind you, it’s been a while since I interacted much there, since I’ve pretty much said all I can say without beating a dead horse, which I prefer to avoid.
Also, I really appreciate the way you’ve approached this entire discussion here. A lot of folks just want validation of their emotional response to whatever mod action they’re posting about, so it’s really cool when people fully engage in wrangling with the broader subject of how to approach moderation and user interactions with mods. At risk of going off topic, this community has changed my approach to moderation both on and off lemmy. I’ve learned a lot here about when to act quickly and decisively, and when to take a more gentle approach.
The community in question is entirely dedicated to dangerous medical misinformation, their purpose for existence is fundamentally bad-faith and should be drowned in downvotes
I disagree.
While I absolutely question the carnivore diet as a general thing, the way the community is handled has shifted from the way it started. Back in the beginning, I was in the same frame of thought you are, and said so directly in the community (eventually).
But jet in specific, and other users, have shifted to better citations, and a more frequent way of presenting their opinions. I do not believe they engage in misinformation currently. If I believed so, I would be obligated by my personal ethical code to attempt to have admins shut it down. Can’t say it would succeed, but I’d have to try.
Since jet in specific is very good about putting in disclaimers that people should approach the diet with care, I definitely can’t call it bad faith. Acknowledgement of the diet being limited in scope for the general population is good faith discussion by default.
Again, I definitely disagree with the claims made by some of the people in linked videos. What they recommend doesn’t match current best practices, and is usually extrapolated from data that is specific to limited circumstances and applied generally, which is very flawed. There’s also non medical issues with attempting a pure carnivorous diet, but I doubt those would be relevant to this.
As such, I still maintain that down voting everything willy nilly is a justifiable reason for bans, which is what this community is about.
If you feel that the community is dangerous, harmful, or otherwise shouldn’t be accessible, throwing down votes at everything is not the appropriate method to address the issue. And that’s what the post was about, not whether or not the community should exist. If you genuinely feel that strongly about the dangers involved, you should be contacting the admins of the instance and explaining that to them.
absolutely question the carnivore diet as a general thing
I’m sure you have seen enough snippits by now to know all that I know about carnivore. The ketogenic diet is probably the single most studied eating pattern in all the literature (its not that keto is special, its that nutritional research is so very sparse)
Where does the outstanding concern come from? The ketogenic aspect (lack of carbohydrates)? Or fibre? Or vitamin C? I’m happy to try to close the gap.
I even have blood work I can share - nothing is off limits for science.
What is with all the twats purposefully going into communities they don’t agree with just to be asswaffles?
YDI, and quite frankly I applaud the mod for not putting up with your bullshit and shutting you down before you disrupt their community.
What’s with all these communities who can’t handle a single opposing viewpoint. Almost like the point is just to sit around and jerk each other off.
Nobody owes you a place to voice your opinion. Our instance, our rules. Accept that, or get banned, it’s that easy.
I’m not forcing anyone to allow people to voice their opinion, just calling them weak and emotional when they can’t handle an opposing opinion. Double points if they can be mention banning someone and free speech in the same sentence.
I don’t care if I’m banned it doesnt change my life. Dbzer0 banned me like two years ago or so already anyways. Second most hypocritical next to .world.
can’t handle an opposing opinion.
Well … WHAT IS YOUR OPPOSING OPINION? Show me the non-epidemology that a ketogenic diet is unhealthy, or that animal based foods are unhealthy.
So far you have only illustrated that you don’t like the concept of the community… There isn’t much there for me to work with.
Double points if they can be mention banning someone and free speech in the same sentence.
Free Speech and Freedom of assembly are both compatible.
I don’t care if I’m banned it doesnt change my life.
Your not banned… you haven’t broken any community guidelines.I’ve decided our interactions in this thread mean I probably should just put the ban in place, we have demonstrated we can’t be civil in our conversations and it wouldn’t be productive.Someone smarter and with better sources already tried and it didnt change much. You don’t seem to care about people, you seem to just want to be “right” based on your perspective and narrative.
Again though, I don’t care to be part of your communities so have fun with your power trip.
Dbzer0 banned me like two years ago or so already anyways.
Wow, this sounds like you are ban evading then. Hmmmm…
How is it ban evading? I’m on a different instance, can’t help it if dbzer0 is allowed where I’m at.
Well because the line of thinking is that if you are banned, then have start on a different instance and post on the place where you are banned, it’s ban-evading. Just giving you the heads up. I personally don’t care if you post here or not, I have no issues with you. Just saying that you are sorta admitting out loud to ban-evading.
I don’t really care what I’m doing is called, I won’t change it based on whether its officially ban evasion or not. If I get banned here for it, I’ll make another account or move instances. I’m not sure why people are so concerned about keeping their account in good standing to be honest.
Narrator: In this comment, Rekorse had failed to understand the difference between the pop culture use of the term “anarchy” meaning “no rules” and the political theory of Anarchism, which if it was distilled into a sound bite would be something like “no state”. Maybe he was confusing us with Freeze Peach Libertarians? Perchance we’ll never know.
They did handle it, they banned them. That’s handling the problem quite nicely.
As for your alt being banned from db0, good riddance. There’s no place for centrist scum here, especially scum who play devils advocate for pedophiles.
The mod message clearly says it wasn’t because of an opposing viewpoint but was for mass downvoting.
You go into a community you already disagree with you’re going to see a lot of comments you disagree with too. Mass downvoting isn’t engagement. Perhaps instead of downvoting all those posts, OP could have responded to them with their opposing view and actual engaged with the opposition like they did in the one referenced post.
Context for the cancer thing. Btw I did not downvote everything but that should not matter
Unless the mod is straight up lying about you down voting everything in the thread: YTI.
The mod is straight up lying about dietary science in a way that will definitely get someone killed if taken at face value, dangerous misinformation deserves to be downvoted
YDI, going into a community to downvote everything is toxic behavior and mods have every right to ban you for it. And they probably should, it’s obviously not a good fit for you.
Dangerous medical misinformation should be downvoted, communities dedicated to it should be disbanded
If you think there is dangerous medical misinformation you should report it or message the admins. Downvoting everything just looks like Vote manipulation to regular people because it is, and those mods are going to ban people for it either way. It also doesn’t help make admins aware of it, so for policy violations doing that instead of reporting or messaging admins is as useless as doing nothing at all.
I’ll do both, there’s nothing manipulative about downvoting things I believe deserve a downvote, and it does help minimize their reach
Systematically going through a whole community in attempt to suppress them absolutely is manipulative and you absolutely can be banned for it. If this wasn’t the case and it was believed people are entitled to vote not matter what why do bans stop the ability to vote in communities in the first place.
In the case of a hypothetical community dedicated to medical disinformation, I think the way to go is not mass downvoting but reporting posts/comments and letting admins deal with it. If necessary, admins can go as far as deleting the community. If the community is on a different instance, they can still “delete” it from view on their instance, and ultimately there’s always the “nuclear option” of defederation.
Mass downvoting is generally how one gets banned from a community or instance.
Please tell me how I am the asshole :)
You are not the asshole. As I said in the above post, if you’re downvoting everything it’s the wrong community for you.
The community is !carnivore@dubvee.org if anyone is interested in participating
I should be explicit - I welcome opposing views, constructive debate, polite back and forth of data and ideas. That is what i live for, that is the power of lemmy.
What I don’t tolerate is hostility and making the community unfriendly to new posters. The intention is to create safe space for people to talk about carnivore, so attacking users either via antagonistic messages or downvoting their content isn’t going to work for me.
Refers to the Sidebar: “This is a community in the spirit of “Am I The Asshole” where people can post their own bans from lemmy or reddit or whatever and get some feedback from others whether the ban was justified or not.”
Edit: And I did not, I think if you search for audience on a public site it should be the deal that the public is invited to discuss and form opinions by voting. I think there might be some interesting things about micronutrients and wether it is feasible to get them in any way other than meat but the things I downvoted I do not agree with. Please have your bubble but as I said I actually love meat, so I am not by any means radical about that. I’m here to discuss wether the feddit (Lemmy) community deems an opinion on a topic differing from the main line of a community expressed through voting an offence or a valid participation in the topic of a community…
You downvoted 19 out of 22 posts, including stuff like how to cook a steak. 86% downvote rate on posts - probably only that low because i posted after your banning, so yeah, your a raging asshole - i was just trying to be polite.
You are a fragile snowflake, and your communities are garbage spewing propaganda.
garbage spewing propaganda.
That isn’t much for me to work with, you don’t like my communities fair enough, but you haven’t moved the discussion forward with any actionable idea, nothing for me to respond to. You don’t like me, ok - I don’t like you. Great, now we are even
Ah, but you gotta give him his platfrm to be an asshole, or you impede his right to FrEeZe PeAcH.
Actually, it’s weird, they look pretty chill:
https://lemvotes.org/user/Rekorse@sh.itjust.works
- Total post upvotes: 3
- Total post downvotes: 6
- Total comment upvotes: 2294
- Total comment downvotes: 63
Not sure what is triggering them, but if they have any real issues with my nutritional communities I want to address it constructively.
Judging from their comment history, they’re just your average right-winger, so the idea they aren’t allowed to express their opinion wherever and whenever they want is what triggered them, not the substance of your community.
The community is !carnivore@dubvee.org if anyone is interested in participating
I would, but I’m instance banned from dubvee for being a Luigi supporter
I welcome opposing views, constructive debate, polite back and forth of data and ideas. That is what i live for, that is the power of lemmy.
Methinks you picked a bad instance for that :(
You’re in luck. With dubvee closing the community has moved to !carnivore@discuss.online
You clearly do not welcome opposing views, you’re as dishonest about your moderation as you are about your “sources”
Your opposing view is just denial… Show me a non-epidemiological published paper on the dangers of a ketogenic metabolism or animal based foods… Change my mind please.
Every single source you’ve posted so far has either been completely unrelated to your claims or obviously methodologically flawed, I don’t need a study to prove you’re a lying sack of shit because you’ve already done the work for me
YDI
You went to a community you disagree with and downvoted almost everything that was there. Sounds like probable trolling to me.
I went to the community because a post from it crossed my hot posts page. I did disagree with the post and subsequently checked out the community.
But then you proceed to downvote every post in the community. That’s where you went wrong. You should have realised that you’ll likley disagree with almost anything posted there and should have just blocked it.
You should have realised that you’ll likley disagree with almost anything posted there and should have just blocked it.
And I wish more Lemmy people understood this!
Surely we need to build more communities insulated from disagreement. The whole point of lemmy is to circle jerk each other right?
“OMG YOU AGREE WITH ME? OH WOW YOU AGREE WITH ME TOO?! FUCK IT FEELS SO GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!”
Pathetic.
Disagreement would require some level of discourse, a proposition supported by data and argument - Just driving around the city and throwing eggs on everybody isn’t much of a disagreement
The community in question is entirely dedicated to dangerous medical misinformation, they deserve worse than downvotes
Vegans are touchy because they are always experiencing the suffering of others through empathy they refuse to tune out. “Carnivores” are touchy because they resent the moral judgement of others.
Carnivores are simply eating more meat to push back against the progress vegans have made to reduce suffering in this world.
do you know how I know you haven’t read anything jet posts there?
For some people it’s religion - they don’t want to see what the heathens are saying. Any non-compliance is dogmatically meet with negativity. I can see why they got into this position, they build their identity and their ethics around their food - the introspection required to have a conversation would also require the ability to cast doubt on their own identity. That is difficult for anyone to do!
push back against the progress vegans have made
Two people reinforcing their assumptions about a group rather then talking to that group are not going to have a realistic view of the world. It’s a bit narcissistic to only view the actions of others in how it relates to you, there are more motivations out there.
For myself, I’m very concerned with reducing human suffering:
trend-lines
Carnivore is a tool, mostly used by people who have very specific problems. I tried to make that very clear in my decision tree post, which you downvoted - which means you read it, right?
Brah, it’s bad form to just go into a community and start downvoting every single article you see. YDI.
I’m seeing more and more Lemmys doing that to try to control their narrative. Not cool.
But what if you read each article, find it’s a pile of shit, then downvote it?
Then your in the wrong community
We are supposed to only go to communities we agree with? Fuck is it with these safe spaces. How are people this fragile on the internet of all places.
It’s not being fragile, if you don’t like a place and you keep going back to the place you don’t like… something is wrong.
Why do you keep sticking around and reading shit you don’t like? And for most, you can tell by the title if it’s gonna be something you are interesting in reading.
How about you read it, think to yourself, “that fucking sucks” and move on. Why do you have to rate it with a vote? Why are you trying to let people know you didn’t like it?
We are focused on health and lifestyle while trying to eat zero carb bioavailable foods.
LOL what a joke, my ancestors lived on a diet of almost all bison, but they still needed other foods like nuts and berries and grains. They ate pemmican more then they ate fresh meat. The thing is that once they had to transition to domesticated animals like cows and pigs, the general health went downhill fast. All red meat is not the same.
Eating a lot of meat is not good for you, science has proven this time and time again. The only reason my ancestors were able to live on a full diet of bison is because they ate the whole freakin animal and perserved the meat with berries and nuts (pemmican)
Right… so the carnivore community is about eating the whole freaking animal. Tip to tail
