• Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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    1 month ago

    The average “western” country depends on the spoils of Imperialism to subsidize costs, ie social safety nets and lower prices of commodities through expropriating vast amounts of wealth from the Global South. China doesn’t do that, its own development and safety nets come from their own labor and production. Very different circumstances.

    • ThirdConsul@lemmy.ml
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      1 month ago

      The average “western” country depends on the spoils of Imperialism

      Hm… Yes, the famous Polish Colonies spanning half the India, some of Africa and Kamchatka.

      China doesn’t do that

      China for the past 20 years has been mining Africa like crazy. I don’t see that wealth staying with African people, but moving to China and giving it monetary and political power.

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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        1 month ago

        Poland isn’t the “average Western country,” but it does depend on the same system of super exploitation of the Global South.

        China is not imperializing Africa. China needs a lot of raw materials found in African countries, but it doesn’t keep African countries dependent on China nor does China enforce economic control on African countries. Both sides benefit. See here, China does not meet the definition of Imperialism.

        • ThirdConsul@lemmy.ml
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          1 month ago

          I’m from Poland.

          The source you quoted says that USSR wasn’t imperialistic.

          Polish economy during occupation by USSR was drained, we were forced to send goods to the Mother Russia like crazy, without compensation. We had local shortages, so that Moska could benefit. If that’s not imperialistic exploitation to you, we have nothing to talk about, because you’re crazy.

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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            1 month ago

            The USSR was not Imperialist, see again:

            USSR did not practice imperialism in the Leninist sense — it did not export capital and was not under control of a financial oligarchy.

            Users like @PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml can offer more insight on Poland as it related to the USSR, but to claim that the USSR was Imperialist is wrong. Calling me “crazy” for having consistency is just a way to avoid the original subject, which was your claim that the PRC is Imperializing Africa, which is also wrong. Now that you were caught out, you pivot to another direction hoping you can coast by on being Polish, when I’ve spoken to other Polish users and done study on my own that leads me to disagree with you.

            • ThirdConsul@lemmy.ml
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              1 month ago

              If the argument you’re making is that Poland wasn’t exploited by USSR, because USSR wasn’t exporting capital, but goods, then that’s a strawman at best. Export of goods by the prices dictated by USSR (at 10% of value at the time), in amounts dictated by USSR, isn’t an export of capital ? Imperialistic country is a country that has colonies. Colony is a territory exploited by the “owning” country. Trying to make distinctions in that paradigm is pointless at best, malicious at worst.

              I pivoted the discussion to Poland (PRL) because the source you quoted blatantly LIED about it. If it’s blatantly lying about USSR, why would I trust anything else whitewashing other countries?

              In 1956, when First Secretary of the Polish United Workers’ Party Gomułka was summoned to Moscow, he made some secret notes (that are now public) counting what infrastructure did Moscow stole (as in - took apart, moved to USSR) from Poland (by 1956!):

              • hundreds different factories lost all machinery
              • thousands of small manufactories (think pa & ma small manufactories)
              • 8 (!) power stations (from Górny Śląśk)
              • coke oven gas pipeline 115km,
              • all big chemistry factories from Polic to Kędzierzyn (value of 1 200 000 000 pre-war $)
              • 4000 km of rails!
              • heavy machine factories in Jelcz, Łabędy, Zielona Góa, Wrocłąw, Elbląg, Szczecin
              • machinery from Mines in Bolesławiec
              • about 2/3 of machines from the biggest shipyard in Poland (the rest were too big to move)
              • 14 factories of paper and cellulose

              Source - Rolicki “Gierek”, pages 110-120 summarize Gomułka notes (Rolicki is a very pro-PRL historian).

              • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml
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                1 month ago

                Rolicki? Janusz Rolicki? The same guy who attacked PRL since he was spurned after his hissy fit in 1980 and later wrote to a far right tabloids like Fakt and Uważam Rze where he was the redaction colleague with scum like Ziemkiewicz? The same Rolicki who accused Michnik and entire Gazeta Wyborcza to be “Kremlin agent”? Pro PRL? Hahahahahaha, what a joke.

                Bruh i lived then and seen how entire publicist, artist and general inteligentsia class turn like little flags the moment PRL fall in show of opportunism like no other ever witnessed. You don’t trust anything such scum write. Especially after 1989 since then we live in a censored political bubble that even USA don’t have.

                • ThirdConsul@lemmy.ml
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                  1 month ago

                  Rolicki published that book decades before he started selling himself for money to Republika. The critics were calling it not biography but hagiography of Gierek.

                  Hissy fit? Yeah, I don’t think highly of you if protesting stan wyjątkowy by leaving the party and being jobless for a few years you call a hissy fit. Please note that before that he was given orders from PRL (and not only for long work duration).

                  Heck, even recently he published a book giving a BJ to whole PRL (like 5 years ago).