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Jem Bendell wrote, that even though there is no hope, we have a moral obligation to try to curb our emissions. I agree with him, there is no hope at this point to stay under 2 degree. CO2 levels are growing ever greater rate and we are hitting so many tipping points and ocean acidification is approaching the critical levels that marine life will die off in droves. And other environmental problems that we are making worse by the minute.
Maybe it is undermining our faith in people, that we should cuddle them in hope to expect any action. Perhaps we should just ditch hope and try something else.
even though there is no hope, we have a moral obligation to try
I absolutely agree with this. Hope isn’t necessary, but I think it can keep you going. My general approach for the last 2 decades has been a kind of cynical optimism - hope for the best, expect the worst.
Also, there is so much we don’t know about how humans can operate on the planet, it seems arrogant to assume you know what the exact outcome will be.
I appreciate your insight, though I disagree with notion that we do not know the outcome. I think the question is when rather than what will happen. We have accumulated so much knowledge and information, but the problem is that information does not transform into action. It is not only climate policy, but other environmental sectors as well.
We definitely don’t have options that let us stay under 1.5 degrees. We might still be able to stay under 2 degrees. We have a good chance of staying under 3 degrees, if we choose to act. Every part of a degree matters. Any reduction in greenhouse gasses means less climate impacts in the long run.
What can be done is mostly reducing our fossil fuel extraction. How to do that… I have opinions, but I’m no sage. The world is complex, and has momentum, but it can change - it’s been doing it constantly for ever, but doing it particularly fast in the last decades. Renewables are already massively outpacing what anyone was predicting 15 years ago. Social revolution is probably in order at some point (or will happen as part of the collapse of capitalism as the insurance industry collapses and takes the financial system down with it). There are lots of choices that can be made that affect how fast and hard that change happens, and how much pain it brings with it…
So you clearly haven’t been following any global events or climate science over the last decade, and you didn’t even watch the video either.
People like you aren’t making anything better with your unfounded pipe dreams.
If anything you are making shit worse for everyone because you’re spreading misinformation by promoting ignorance and hope for a future that isn’t possible.
They literally can tell the world that we change or die and politicians just don’t give a fuck because they need their next sweet gig from fossil fuels.
Fossil fuel companies also don’t give a shit because they need to fund their next coke fucked party and once things get really bad we’ll just blame the Jews or the trans community or something
And the world at large? They’re kind of the same as most Americans right now. They know it’s bad, but bills need to be paid and oh, here is a special discount coupon, score! Sorry, protest Trump’s horrible actions? Well, yeah, but coupon!
This is literally the state of the world right now as I see it and it’s depressing
I don’t believe we will die out as a species, I do believe that within a hundred years we’re lucky if we have a few million humans alive, still.
Mind you, I don’t want to give up, but I have given up. It takes too much mental energy, it’s making me depressed. I’m just quietly enjoying my time with my sweet dear wife until the day it’s all over. It sucks, but I’m not going to be separating plastics that will be dumped together anyways while pop stars still fly private planes FFS.
Yeah, that is what I did. Then it felt all futile, because it is. I help people around me and what not, I’m a good good or at least I try to be, but for the environment? Nah, I’m done. Been trying to save it and “do my part” for fourth years now and for each hard steps I help, I improve the world by 1, some random dingdong does a -46295829 in a single tweet even…
Either we murder all the psychopaths and narcissists and billionaires in the world, or we’re deeply fucked.
Hell, even if miraculously we fox the CO2 problem (spoiler alert: we won’t. Can’t now, but even if we could, we wouldn’t) there are a hundred other “oh holy fucking hell my dick is on fire” environmental issues that nobody gives a shit about PFAS? Let’s just go and spread the joy everywhere! Let’s mine the ocean floor and destroy everything we have there! Let’s chop downall the rainforests we have so that we can make a quick buck!
The human race is fucked unless we do something very drastic. If you know of actual solutions, not the “well separate your garbage, YOU need to do your part” nonsense, then let me know
What is there left to have any practical optimism about?
At least with enough people admitting defeat, fewer people will procreate and this will slightly lessen the impact we’re having on climate and resources.
I just don’t see humanity cooperating together to not hit 4c warming. Nothing in the world around me gives me any inclination that people are capable of this or even particularly want it.
That’s a bummer dude. Not all of us are in that space.
(I’m also not gonna profess any certainty of avoiding +4°C, but I still see a possibility, because I hang around a lot of people working on making it happen, in many diverse ways).
Also it doesn’t mean we should give up, just that we can’t have a perfect solution anymore (maybe we never could…)
Jem Bendell wrote, that even though there is no hope, we have a moral obligation to try to curb our emissions. I agree with him, there is no hope at this point to stay under 2 degree. CO2 levels are growing ever greater rate and we are hitting so many tipping points and ocean acidification is approaching the critical levels that marine life will die off in droves. And other environmental problems that we are making worse by the minute.
Maybe it is undermining our faith in people, that we should cuddle them in hope to expect any action. Perhaps we should just ditch hope and try something else.
I absolutely agree with this. Hope isn’t necessary, but I think it can keep you going. My general approach for the last 2 decades has been a kind of cynical optimism - hope for the best, expect the worst.
Also, there is so much we don’t know about how humans can operate on the planet, it seems arrogant to assume you know what the exact outcome will be.
I appreciate your insight, though I disagree with notion that we do not know the outcome. I think the question is when rather than what will happen. We have accumulated so much knowledge and information, but the problem is that information does not transform into action. It is not only climate policy, but other environmental sectors as well.
But anyhow, it is nice to exchange views.
Aside from not procreating and trying to enjoy what good times we have left, what else can be done?
We definitely don’t have options that let us stay under 1.5 degrees. We might still be able to stay under 2 degrees. We have a good chance of staying under 3 degrees, if we choose to act. Every part of a degree matters. Any reduction in greenhouse gasses means less climate impacts in the long run.
What can be done is mostly reducing our fossil fuel extraction. How to do that… I have opinions, but I’m no sage. The world is complex, and has momentum, but it can change - it’s been doing it constantly for ever, but doing it particularly fast in the last decades. Renewables are already massively outpacing what anyone was predicting 15 years ago. Social revolution is probably in order at some point (or will happen as part of the collapse of capitalism as the insurance industry collapses and takes the financial system down with it). There are lots of choices that can be made that affect how fast and hard that change happens, and how much pain it brings with it…
If you’re still optimistic, did you know global fresh water demand will exceed supply 40% by 2030 and 90% of the earths topsoil is at risk of depletion by 2050?
Billions of people will die in the upcoming droughts and famines in this century. Billions more as the atmosphere continues to heat.
So you clearly haven’t been following any global events or climate science over the last decade, and you didn’t even watch the video either.
People like you aren’t making anything better with your unfounded pipe dreams.
If anything you are making shit worse for everyone because you’re spreading misinformation by promoting ignorance and hope for a future that isn’t possible.
My dude, I have a PhD in climate science. And I have been involved in climate activism since 2005.
Nothing I said contradicted anything in your post, that I can see. And my outlook isn’t very optimistic (but it’s also not completely pessimistic).
I don’t really see how Suzuki’s giving up approach helps either.
It doesn’t help but I so get it
They literally can tell the world that we change or die and politicians just don’t give a fuck because they need their next sweet gig from fossil fuels.
Fossil fuel companies also don’t give a shit because they need to fund their next coke fucked party and once things get really bad we’ll just blame the Jews or the trans community or something
And the world at large? They’re kind of the same as most Americans right now. They know it’s bad, but bills need to be paid and oh, here is a special discount coupon, score! Sorry, protest Trump’s horrible actions? Well, yeah, but coupon!
This is literally the state of the world right now as I see it and it’s depressing
I don’t believe we will die out as a species, I do believe that within a hundred years we’re lucky if we have a few million humans alive, still.
Mind you, I don’t want to give up, but I have given up. It takes too much mental energy, it’s making me depressed. I’m just quietly enjoying my time with my sweet dear wife until the day it’s all over. It sucks, but I’m not going to be separating plastics that will be dumped together anyways while pop stars still fly private planes FFS.
https://lemmy.world/post/33573626/18479159
Yeah, that is what I did. Then it felt all futile, because it is. I help people around me and what not, I’m a good good or at least I try to be, but for the environment? Nah, I’m done. Been trying to save it and “do my part” for fourth years now and for each hard steps I help, I improve the world by 1, some random dingdong does a -46295829 in a single tweet even…
Either we murder all the psychopaths and narcissists and billionaires in the world, or we’re deeply fucked.
Hell, even if miraculously we fox the CO2 problem (spoiler alert: we won’t. Can’t now, but even if we could, we wouldn’t) there are a hundred other “oh holy fucking hell my dick is on fire” environmental issues that nobody gives a shit about PFAS? Let’s just go and spread the joy everywhere! Let’s mine the ocean floor and destroy everything we have there! Let’s chop downall the rainforests we have so that we can make a quick buck!
The human race is fucked unless we do something very drastic. If you know of actual solutions, not the “well separate your garbage, YOU need to do your part” nonsense, then let me know
If you can’t be part of the solution, be part of the problem, I guess?
What is there left to have any practical optimism about?
At least with enough people admitting defeat, fewer people will procreate and this will slightly lessen the impact we’re having on climate and resources.
Did you even read my comment before responding aggressively? Do you see how there can be a difference between +2°C and +4°C?
I just don’t see humanity cooperating together to not hit 4c warming. Nothing in the world around me gives me any inclination that people are capable of this or even particularly want it.
That’s a bummer dude. Not all of us are in that space.
(I’m also not gonna profess any certainty of avoiding +4°C, but I still see a possibility, because I hang around a lot of people working on making it happen, in many diverse ways).