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Wait are cotton pickin minute. The conservative media has been telling me Democrats are letting illegal aliens waltz across the border. Did they lied?
ICE will play the role of the IRGC in Iran or other paramilitary groups you see in theocratic and authoritarian countries.
ICE is going to recruit guerilla fighters to resist a genocidal ethnostate?
You don’t understand, ICE was deporting brown people when we thought they were terrorists, now that ICE is deporting brown people because Trump thinks they’re terrorists, it’s now evil.
And how many of those years were ICE straight up kidnapping people to throw into dungeons?
.5 (so far)
Ask the ICE victims because they were the scary brown people plotting the next 9/11 but never found guilty.
All of them. It was their founding mandate. It’s simply operating more openly and at unimaginable scale this year.
That’s simply untrue, show me one example when they weren’t given due process. Even the ones they caught mere feet accross the border would get to see a judge before going back. There was no accidental deportation of citizens or people there legally, and it was an discussion first, deport later scenario.
These are completely different in every way and to compare them being the same is a disservice to everyone.
Gitmo is a whole other beast.
Immigration courts have always been kangaroo courts. For example, there’s no right to an attorney, and young children have been made to defend themselves against threat of deportation. That’s not due process by any stretch of the imagination.
To say “there was no accidental deportation of people there legally” is completely absurd. Are you suggesting that not a single immigration court ever made a single mistake?
The “disservice to everyone” is you trying to whitewash the system and pretending that courts that require 6 year olds to defend themselves with no council is somehow a legitimate, fair system, just because the orange man wasn’t the one in charge of it.
I agree, there was some form of due process before.
That due process however was mostly a sham. Immigration courts are a show trial. They aren’t part of the judicial branch. The “judges” work for the same guy as the prosecutors.
If the judge doesn’t do as the president likes, they can be fired. Same with the prosecutors. These are shows put on so we can call ourselves a law abiding society.
EDIT: The torture prisons are new however.
That’s overly reductive and you know it.
Seems pretty accurate to me. It’s like the abortion issue too. Democrats will campaign on things it knows people like, but when they have actual power to do something, they always come up short.
There needs to be some kind of immigration enforcement just to handle the processing of people as they complete the immigration process. This requires some level of funding, and due to inflation and growing populations it will always result in record breaking funding at some point.
Democrats were denouncing ICE in 2017-2020 because the administration was ordering ICE to pursue practices like stealing children. They are denouncing them now because ICE is kidnapping people off the street and when they show up for court hearings when they are complying with court orders.
This list implies that the Dems are wrong for ever funding ICE and that they are hypocrites for complaining when Republicans are in power. But it glosses over the nuance that ICE really is used far more maliciously when Trump is in power and that denouncing of the specific actions of ICE are completely valid because those are their jackboot thug years.
Dems are shitty on immigration because they are complicit with lowering immigration maximums and excluding too many people while not promoting reforms that improve how ICE behaves. But it isn’t the same thing as supporting the ICEstappo when in office, because they dial it back to a shitty level instead of full on villain mode.
just to handle the processing of people as they complete the immigration process.
United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) handles this. They and ICE were founded in 2002 along Customs and Border Patrol. ICE is the result of the merging of two separate enforcement agencies: part of the US Customs Services and the enforcement arm of the Immigration and Naturalization Services.
Illegal entries caught within 100 miles of the border weren’t classified as deportations until the George W. Bush administration. Obama was colloquially known as Deporter in Chief for these high numbers.
The US also defines every international airport as a border, so there are almost no people in the country not within 100 miles of a border
Absolutely. The solution is comprehensive immigration reform. Until Congress passes it, we will continue to deport people due to our overcomplicated and flawed system.
It’s also important to note that more immigrants cross the border under Democratic presidents, and most deportations under those presidents are people caught at the border, versus the rounding up and deporting of working, tax-paying immigrants who have been here for years.
Yes, which is why ICE and all immigration enforcement under Trump is many, many times worse than under the Dems and still would be even if the reforms were in place because Trump is ignoring the laws and court orders that should be preventing him from deporting people to 3rd party countries just like he ignored the orders against separating children from parents.
Even if the Dems were sugar and spice and everything nice we would still have some kind of immigration enforcement in place and it would have been twisted into to what it is now because conservatives don’t care about following the laws they dislike.
True. It’s long overdue regardless. We are still using the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (IRCA). Obama pushed for immigration reform, but all Congress was able to pass with a weak majority was DACA in 2012.
Republicans want a broken system so they have a scapegoat for elections.
There needs to be some kind of immigration enforcement just to handle the processing of people as they complete the immigration process.
No there doesn’t. We don’t have anything similar like a dedicated anti-immigration police in Canada or in the EU. There are border protection agencies and there are immigration bureaucracies, but this special immigration police thing going on in the US, is not a thing.
Ice is a newish agency formed after 9/11 with the also dystopianly named DHS. It was a product of the time of patriot acts and TSA. None of them are needed or helpful or going away.
What makes you think “handle the processing of people as they complete the immigration process” had to include anti-immigration police?
I get the feeling you don’t disagree with the parent commenter at all.
ICE is a law enforcement agency. It’s a police. With a special immigration mandate.
I guess I am not clear what is meant by “handle the processing of people as they complete the immigration process”. In Canada, things like applications and forms are handled by IRCC, the immigration ministry. Other than that, there is CBSA, which is like your CBP, but we don’t have a specialized interior immigration police.
for an anarchist perspective on this topic: https://crimethinc.com/books/no-wall-they-can-build.
You mean like how Obama was doing the exact same thing and Trump simply expanded on it but liberal media shoved it under the rug when Obama did it?
That’s a lot of links. Which one is about Obama directing ICE to steal children from families instead of incarcerating them together in family detention or deporting them together?
I said they dial it back to shitty levels which are not as bad as masked plainclothes agents in unmarked cars kidnapping people on the street or stealing children while families are detained.
Obama had a nickname. “Deporter in Chief”.
Obama did the things you described. The excuse is that Obama did not do it “systematically”. But he did it a few times and got away with it. Thus setting a precedent for Trump to do the same thing a lot of times.
Do you even remember that Obama built the cages?
Obama builds a concentration camp and then people act surprised that a Republican comes in and uses it as a concentration camp? The selective outrage here is astounding.
Wait no you can’t do that! The Democrats would never eat my face, I can only conceive of that happening to Republicans
If the world were a binary meme world this might make sense, but it’s more like saying stuff happened during the day… night… day… night…
Average Lemmy user, “There is no difference between the politician on the left and the politician on the right.”
I like how in this analogy, republicans are Hitler and democrats are the guy who brought Hitler to power. Very apt.
Anyone who knows the guy on the left: “Hindenburg went out of his way to empower Hitler and the Nazis when it was clear that his coalition was failing. Instead of working with the Social Democrats, he empowered the Nazi. Without his choices, there’s a chance that the Hitler wouldn’t have come to power. He’s an awful person.”
You: “so you think there’s no difference between the two?!”
You are proving my point. One was bad, the other was evil and you can’t see the difference.
You: “so you think there’s no difference between the two?!”
Lesser, greater, middling.
The guy on the left appointed Hitler and then gave him power with the Enabling Act and aided in giving him unchecked powers.
So without Hindenburg, Hitler wouldn’t have been put into power. So he’s far from a good guy.
. So he’s far from a good guy.
That was my point. One is bad, the other is pure evil. Lemmy: " I see no difference."
I was just going to point out that deportations were higher under Biden.
Then I remembered who that guy in the picture is!
Hindenburg literally appointed Hitler chancellor, approved the Reichstag Fire Decree, and gave the Nazis emergency powers by singing the Enabling Act of 1933. Do you not even credit him slightly for the rise of Hitler and the Nazis?
Still waiting for the Democrats to start fighting Nazis
But they wrote strongly worded letters, that’s the same right?
The only two who tried to shoot Trump were right wing. I have seen any leftists/socialists try and stop Trump either.
Shooting Trump wouldn’t really help? He’d just become a martyr for MAGA and JD Vance would do all the shit Trump was going to do, but also use the assassination as an excuse to deport leftists.
This all under a picture of Hitler hah
If you kill Hitler and aren’t organized enough to take advantage of the infighting (or assassinate the rest of Nazi leadership) then one of the other Nazis will just slide into his place. It’s not like there are a shortage of potential Hitlers around.
Assassination has to be part of a larger, more organized political project or it doesn’t really accomplish anything.
Idk I’d probably still advocate killing Hitler
But it doesn’t fix anything.
A hypothetical time traveler needs to build organized resistance and implement a strategy to destroy the the Nazi Party, otherwise you just get WW2 and the Holocaust with a different guy in charge. You can’t even be sure it would be better if you replaced Hitler with a different Nazi. Remember, Hitler lost.
Lone wolf tactics and adventurism do not work and can not work.
Even if it would be really funny.
Lebensraum, and the implied means to achieve it, was a policy goal of WW1 as it happens.
That’s kind of the idea I was thinking of. Lemmy users would focus on the bad of Hindenburg and declare him identical to Hitler. Hindenburg wasn’t a saint but it’s wrong to say there’s no difference between Hindenburg and Hitler.
.ml user specifically
This post is on .world so I’d expect the majority of upvotes are .world too.
Could be, OP is posting from a .ml address though. My comment was referring to them
No, it’s from .ml. Check again
How does this post say there is no difference?
Instead your comments tend to be similar to how republicans always claim “It is fine when my team does it”
Do you have anything better than using an ad hominem?
You realize every country has border patrol, right? Spending money on your border patrol agency isn’t inherently evil. Denmark is one of the most “socialist” countries in the world, but they also have one of the strictest border policies.
ICE under Obama was very different to ICE under Trump.
Funding ICE and even reducing the budget while following normal legal procedures is a gigantic difference between Trump increasing ICE 3X and performing illegal deportations.
It’s not an ad hominem, it’s a comparison.
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Between 2011 and 2015 the ICE budget stayed the same or fell in 2 years.
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Democrats enforced Obama era rules of 72 hour holding limitations for women and children, and followed a criminal-only persecution which actually deported more people than Trump despite the number of cages Trump filled. Thats what this is all about. Trump is filling cages for the private prison industry’s profits.
If you don’t want the DNC to compromise then elect more than 50 of them to the Senate, and a strong house majority.
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You say inflation makes numbers go up each year?
Weird that inflation only seems to really exist for the carceral state.
Feel CLEAN! Vote GREEN! /s
No
why /s?
if you want anything to change, vote, if you don’t agree with any candidate, vote third party
elections are usually very close, if a third party is polling at about a few percentage points, major parties will bend over backwards to get those votes.
that’s how we got Brexit (a bad thing) but it was weaponised third parties.
