Update: It’s handling much more predictably now. It seems the issue was likely due to the wheel speed sensors not knowing that the tires weren’t properly inflated due to an improper/lacking TPMS calibration. Since there aren’t actual pressure sensors in the tires this car has to make some assumptions that rely on having the tire pressure accurately set and then telling the car to reset it’s calibration. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I bought a 2023 ID.4 last summer and have to say overall I really like it. That said, it’s winter handling on roads and highways might be the worst of any car I’ve ever owned.
It has the OEM Pirelli Scorpion Zeroes, and all of the online reviews make these out to be really good all around tires. Tread depth is okay - my depth gauge shows it on the border between green and yellow all around, so about 5/32".
With snow packed roads it slides all over above 30 mph or so. On the highways I can’t go over 40 or 45 if there are slippery patches or the whole car skates sideways and begins to fishtail. Other cars are flying by me, and the other vehicles I own handle the roads more like I would expect.
Could this be due to the material of the tires being harder than other tires? Is the tread pattern not good for ice and snow? I’m really questioning the online reviews but not sure if different tires will be better or not.
Dude. Get you some real snow tires. Driving in snow with all weather or all season tires is very risky. Once you get a better gripping tire, you’ll see the difference.
I have snow tires for my Subaru in addition to the all seasons, and there is honestly very little difference in performance between them on that vehicle. I have plenty of winter driving experience, so my perception and assessment of these Scorpion Zeroes isn’t in a vacuum. If they handled even remotely as I expected, I wouldn’t have made this post.
My real unknown is if electric vehicles have overall worse performance on snow, if the ID.4 does, or if these tires really do suck that badly.
Electric car tires often have more round sidewalls for better aero which would harm snow traction quite a bit.
Hmm… I know EV have high torque. That might be the problem then. They’re also a LOT heavier.
Heavier should be an asset though, right? Higher torque seems like it could be a problem, but traction control should theoretically help adjust power to the wheels as needed.
The tires were all well below recommended settings, and I learned that the ID.4 uses wheel speed sensors to infer tire pressure, so I wasn’t getting notified of the low pressure because (I assume) the system hadn’t been calibrated. It’s a simple matter of properly inflating the tires and then pressing a button on the screen, so maybe that also impacts traction control. I’ll test it over the next couple of days and see if I need to get the dealer involved.
Best of luck!
It would be informative to know what other cars you are used to driving in snow and what kind of tires are on them. I will echo the other comments though: “all season” tires are really three season tires, and EV-optimized tires may be worse. If you have a proper winter where you live, you should have proper winter tires.
It’s also likely that the ID.4 handles differently than the cars you’re used to. If it is not the all wheel drive version, then it is rear wheel drive, while most cars are front wheel drive. With front wheel drive, excessive use of power causes the front wheels to break traction, reducing steering effectiveness. This is called understeer, and can lead to a crash if you need the car to turn and it doesn’t, but doesn’t look or feel very dramatic most of the time. Correcting understeer consists of reducing power and sometimes steering angle until grip is restored.
With rear wheel drive, excessive power causes the rear wheels to break traction such that the car rotates more than expected in a turn, or starts to rotate without steering input. This is called oversteer, and can lead to a crash if not managed correctly; it looks and feels far more dramatic than understeer, but isn’t necessarily more dangerous. Correcting oversteer consists of moderately (not fully/abruptly) reducing power and steering toward the direction the car is rotating.
I suggest some experimentation/practice in an empty snow-covered parking lot to get a better sense of how your car handles when it loses traction and what you can do to control it. It might even be good to do this before your winter tires arrive because it will require lower speeds and power levels, but do not delay getting the winter tires for that reason.
I’ve been driving in snow long enough to have all the basics covered. Cars I have experience with? Let’s see… Fiat X1/9, Chrysler LeBaron, Karman Ghia, Pontiac Vibe FWD, Pontiac Grand Prix, BMW 530Xi, Honda Pilot, Lincoln MKX, Subaru Outback, and now this ID.4. I may have missed a few, but that’s most of them. I’ve only ever had snow tires for the Outback, but I didn’t even put them on this year because the all seasons perform so well.
I would not expect a modern AWD vehicle to be the worst performer in that list…
Clarifying that it’s AWD adds to the discussion. I would expect it to handle similarly to the Subaru and the BMW, and suspect a problem if it doesn’t.
I still think the problem is tires, but there’s a chance it’s malfunctioning in a way that causes incorrect torque distribution.
I switched driving mode from Comfort to Traction, and can’t say I noticed any difference in handling. I checked and inflated tires to the recommended level last night so I’ll drive it for another day or two and then maybe visit the dealer if it’s still not good.
From what I see scorpion zeroes are an “all weather” not “all season” and pirelli only claim they are good in “light snow covered roads”.
Check the tire pressure. Many tireshops overinflate and this will greatly reduce ice performance by decreasing the contact patch.
I checked the tire pressure last night and they were all a bit below the recommended 44 psi. No warning on the dash which surprised me, so I learned that the ID.4 infers tire pressure from the wheel speed sensors.
I got them all to 44 and reset the tire monitoring system so I’ll check how it handles over the next few days.
Actually you will get better traction if the tires are inflated less.
That’s my general feeling too, though I don’t have any experience. Reviews online seem to suggest that this only holds for deep snow, mud, sand, etc. Under inflation apparently causes the center of the tire to bow up away from the pavement and you end up running just on the edges. On light snow and wet pavement, you end up with a small contact patch, but deep snow gives you an increased one. I’m not familiar enough with it to know how true this is so I’ll start with the recommended pressure and see if that “fixes” the traction control problem.
Extreme underinflation like 15si causes the bowed contact patch yes. Running 5-10psi under rated pressure won’t.
Did you buy the AWD model? If no, you’ve got an RWD car in the snow, which might explain it’s fishtail tendency.
I’m curious how much that is. EVs are known for having insane traction control. But how much can that compensate for (potentially) bad tires in winter.
Traction control cannot compensate for bad tires at all. It compensates for excessive power application by the driver and does not change how much traction exists between the tires and road surface.
After all of the comments here, and some more consideration, I’m now thinking/hoping that the issue stemmed from under inflated tires that were not properly recognized by the traction control system as under inflated (since no warning was on display).
I’ve properly inflated them and reset the system so now I’ll have to see how it handles.
If it uses a combined sensor for tire pressure and wheel speed as your other comment says, underinflation/miscalibration could cause traction/stability control to act up resulting in all manner of potential weird handling issues on low-traction surfaces.
Traction control on EVs is vastly superior but mostly has its effect on acceleration. Deceleration is often based on brakes (ABS). With sufficient regen electric cars I’ve driven often don’t apply traction control on regen correctly (might be different on current gen or perhaps I did not notice positives) but that should not be a feeling on a highway where wind dominates slowing down.
For constant speed driving I would look at tires, weight distribution and suspension geometry but not the drivetrain. I’ve also heard anecdotally that the Eniaq (same base setup) is not the most stable with all seasons on the snow. Perhaps they could get the car to behave very well on all other conditions with the low center of gravity, perhaps the factory all-seasons have limited snow capabilities.
Depending on climate I don’t think winter tires are always necessary. If there’s 5 days of snow a year, the winter tires will behave suboptimally for a large portion of the half-year they tend to be on the car. On the ID.4, especially if it feels like it’s losing traction, I’d look at better tires as it’s the obvious to replace and winter tires may be well worth the investment.
Source: enjoy snow driving with RWD cars a lot with summer tires and all seasons and only drive electric now; not a test pilot.
Yeah it’s the AWD model, which is why I’m shocked at how bad it handles snow.
Def rec snow tires. Keep in mind, snow tires are designed to help stop not for go.
Tracks based on the reviews on tire rack. https://www.tirerack.com/tires/pirelli-scorpion-zero If you are looking for better winter traction you can get better tires out there.
Thanks. Even that summarizes them as Fair for winter use, and that is absolutely not my experience. This is my first electric car and the winter handling is so bad that I’m not sure if it’s due to the electric drive/more torque/(maybe) poor traction control system, or if the tires really should be rated as summer tires and not all season.
All Season tires rarely do well in snow at all.
Combine that with the torque of an electric and it’s no fun in the snow
Have you driven in the snow before on all season tires?
Yep. Have them on both of my other cars right now.
Nokian Haakapaliita tires.
Nothing like them in the snow, and especially ice.
I’ve tried every three out there, nothing compares.
As I’ve said elsewhere, they make even overpowered FWD cars with an open diff go, turn, and stop even in icy conditions.
I have the Nokian Entyre on my Subaru right now, and didn’t even bother swapping them out for snow tires most years (this one included). They’re an amazing tire.
I would not be surprised to learn that the tire brand from Finland does a better job including winter in its understanding of “all season” than the tire brand from Italy.
Are they Pirelli Scorpion Zeroes? Or are they the ELECT model? ELECTs are tuned for EVs which might cause them to suck more in bad weather like that.
I’m not in front of the car right now but would be shocked if they weren’t the EV version. That’s part of what is going through my head - do EV tires use a harder rubber to make them roll more smoothly and last a bit longer, but then sacrifice grip in cold weather? Or is it something else. This is my first experience with an EV.
Naturally their marketing material isn’t going to mention any downsides to their more expensive version so it’s kinda hard to tell. But the tire is stiffer which might negatively affect traction. And it’s somehow lower rolling resistance which generally means worse traction, but not necessarily.
Torque, weight, tires. Fix one or more.
Winter tyres for snow
Thats your answer
