I think there’s a scene in a TV show recently where the modern day Nazi says something like “They like what I say. They just don’t like the word Nazi”
Many people have a, let’s say, shallow understanding of history. They believe Nazis are bad but just like axiomatically. They don’t have a good definition of why, and so they don’t really see it when their in-group behaves the same.
When I started dating my now wife, my now Father In Law got into a massive argument with my wife’s uncle because the uncle’s a pretty unhinged version of a leftist and was arguing that his ideal form of goverment was that of a benevolent dictatorship. My FIL was flabbergasted that anyone would think that that was a good idea, not just because he’s politically opposed to my wife’s Uncle’s idea of what constitutes benevolence, but that he would think that a strong autocratic leader would fix anything, regardless of their politics.
8 years later, here we are with my Father In Law being so loudly and unrelentingly pro-Trump it has nearly caused permanent rifts in the family, including with my wife, and nearly destroyed his marriage too. He has zero problem with Trump taking as much power as needed to push his policies through. The fucking irony of it, supporting the most blatant autocratic shift in American political history after being furious at the idea from my wife’s Uncle, and it’s entirely lost on him.
The original point about a benevolent dictatorship being the ideal form of government is, in my opinion, true. Having a single point of decision means that issues are dealt with quickly and efficiently, the ‘benevolent’ part means that the needs of the populace are heard and addressed, oppression is eliminated wherever it can be found. A truly benevolent dictatorship looks a lot like a well-run democracy.
The problem comes when the benevolent dictator dies peacefully in their sleep. Or when other parts of the government begin to realize that they can feed the dictator lies in order to get what they want. Or when the dear leader starts to get paranoid. A benevolent dictatorship only works briefly, after which the ‘dictatorship’ part starts to become a real problem.
Or if ‘benevolence’ includes religious extremism (although I would argue that a leader like that wouldn’t count as truly benevolent).
The problem comes when the benevolent dictator dies peacefully in their sleep.
The problems arise well before that. There’s no such thing as a benevolent dictator because it’s an oxymoron. Anyone who would seek to control everyone is not benevolent. And even if we agreed that unilaterally controlling everyone could still be benevolent, there is no means to gaining such control that is not inherently not benevolent short of nearly every one of your constituents collectively appointing you to that position.
Yeah. George Washington is one of the only men in history who had a chance to be a benevolent dictator. And what did he do? He said “No, we’re doing democracy now.” And if he hadn’t, he wouldn’t have been benevolent.
Yes, that is why I continued to give examples of when it would go south.
This is absolutely a pie-in-the-sky fantasy. Benevolent dictatorships work as well as state-run communism does - which is to say, in theory they’re great, but they show cracks nearly the instant they’re actually enacted.
work as well as state-run communism does - which is to say, in theory they’re great
State-run communism is also an oxymoron. The total state control of production is meant to be an intermediary step in the transition from capitalism. First the state seizes materials, machinery, money, etc away from the capitalists and corporations, redistributes the seized wealth according to need, and then it relinquishes control of production to the workers and of the governance to community structures and dissolves itself. That last step has never happened at a national scale in human history. State-run communism is not communism, by definition. It’s just capitalism where the state leadership are the only capitalists.
The Roman dictators were unlike what we think of a dictator nowadays. From Wikipedia:
He received the full powers of the state, subordinating the other magistrates, consuls included, for the specific purpose of resolving that issue, and that issue only, and then dispensing with those powers immediately.
Worked out fairly well for the Roman Republic, until Julius Caesar became dictator-for-life which a lot of people didn’t like. You can guess how that ended.
No because its still a single person imposing their will on an entire country and only giving them what they feel they deserve.
The ultimate form of government will always be a democracy. People should work together to build society. It may be slower but thats fine, government doesnt need to move fast and break things.
Even in a democracy, you will still have a small group of people imposing their will over others, and only giving them what they feel they deserve. The only difference you are seeing is that of scale. Instead of a collection of elected representatives who are granted disparate powers by the plurality of people they are ruling over in their various capacities as governors, a benevolent dictatorship has one person who is granted all governmental powers by the people they are ruling over. Even a democracy can, briefly, be a tyranny. It just requires multiple bad actors to work together.
The primary difference is how long it takes for the wheels to fall off. In a dictatorship, it can - and usually does - happen virtually instantly. That’s the primary reason democracies (and republics) are the way they are - to slow down the encroachment of tyranny, hopefully enough to allow people to react to it and overturn it. (And as we’re seeing in the USA right now, that’s no guarantee.)
Yeah, it seems like it would be one of the better forms of government. The problem I see is having a human as said dictator. And I don’t see any way of making something like an AI that isn’t compromised.
Not to get all “human nature”, but there’s a primal appeal of fascist rhetoric, particularly when it is couched within the urgency of media misinformation and real material economic decay.
People who are overworked, underfed, and deluged with propaganda are primed to accept the “evil foreigners have inflicted this upon you” rhetoric. The states where Republicans outperform tend to be states with large O&G based economies, with people who feel their livelihoods are predicated on petroleum production and export. Downturns in these economies are blamed on Muslims, who just happen to be the majority faith in rival oil exporting nations. The opioid crisis and its socio-economic impacts have very real material consequences to impoverished communities, but the domestic pharmaceutical industry employs and enriches a lot of people. So its easier to blame China than the Sackler Family, in the same way it was easier to blame Jimmy Carter and public housing policies from the 1970s than the Mega-Banks back during the '08 financial crash. High health care costs and housing / education / credit card debts are, similarly, problems that can be displaced onto migrants “stealing” limited resources and PoC getting special government subsidies offered by evil liberal socialists. And “crime” as an eternal bugaboo haunts every local news network and AM Talk Radio show in the country, justifying ever more draconian police and surveillance.
You don’t even have to limit yourself to the Republican Party to find this compelling. How many liberals are fully sold on the idea that Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran are behind all of America’s domestic failings? How many people were willing to throw Muslim and Transgender voters under the bus because Kamala Harris lost the 2024 election?
Fascist rhetoric is appealing because it offers a very simple, straightforward, and violently final solution to a host of perceived social problems. It promises immediate relief from your pain. It promises schadenfreude as a kind of restitution for accumulated injustices. And it promises to make you impervious to future harms, through the terror you invoke in your enemies.
It’s an instinctual social response. One that aspiring politicians play on to build popular movements and seize power from sclerotic bureaucracies. And when you’re feeling the impulse, it doesn’t feel wicked or wrong. It feels justified and deeply satisfying.
A disturbing amount of people seem to love fascism.
They don’t like it to be called by name, but they do love it.
I think there’s a scene in a TV show recently where the modern day Nazi says something like “They like what I say. They just don’t like the word Nazi”
Many people have a, let’s say, shallow understanding of history. They believe Nazis are bad but just like axiomatically. They don’t have a good definition of why, and so they don’t really see it when their in-group behaves the same.
The boys. They got pretty heavy handed because certain crowds weren’t getting the idea.
When I started dating my now wife, my now Father In Law got into a massive argument with my wife’s uncle because the uncle’s a pretty unhinged version of a leftist and was arguing that his ideal form of goverment was that of a benevolent dictatorship. My FIL was flabbergasted that anyone would think that that was a good idea, not just because he’s politically opposed to my wife’s Uncle’s idea of what constitutes benevolence, but that he would think that a strong autocratic leader would fix anything, regardless of their politics.
8 years later, here we are with my Father In Law being so loudly and unrelentingly pro-Trump it has nearly caused permanent rifts in the family, including with my wife, and nearly destroyed his marriage too. He has zero problem with Trump taking as much power as needed to push his policies through. The fucking irony of it, supporting the most blatant autocratic shift in American political history after being furious at the idea from my wife’s Uncle, and it’s entirely lost on him.
The original point about a benevolent dictatorship being the ideal form of government is, in my opinion, true. Having a single point of decision means that issues are dealt with quickly and efficiently, the ‘benevolent’ part means that the needs of the populace are heard and addressed, oppression is eliminated wherever it can be found. A truly benevolent dictatorship looks a lot like a well-run democracy.
The problem comes when the benevolent dictator dies peacefully in their sleep. Or when other parts of the government begin to realize that they can feed the dictator lies in order to get what they want. Or when the dear leader starts to get paranoid. A benevolent dictatorship only works briefly, after which the ‘dictatorship’ part starts to become a real problem.
Or if ‘benevolence’ includes religious extremism (although I would argue that a leader like that wouldn’t count as truly benevolent).
The problems arise well before that. There’s no such thing as a benevolent dictator because it’s an oxymoron. Anyone who would seek to control everyone is not benevolent. And even if we agreed that unilaterally controlling everyone could still be benevolent, there is no means to gaining such control that is not inherently not benevolent short of nearly every one of your constituents collectively appointing you to that position.
Yeah. George Washington is one of the only men in history who had a chance to be a benevolent dictator. And what did he do? He said “No, we’re doing democracy now.” And if he hadn’t, he wouldn’t have been benevolent.
He understood normal human kindness.
Yes, that is why I continued to give examples of when it would go south.
This is absolutely a pie-in-the-sky fantasy. Benevolent dictatorships work as well as state-run communism does - which is to say, in theory they’re great, but they show cracks nearly the instant they’re actually enacted.
State-run communism is also an oxymoron. The total state control of production is meant to be an intermediary step in the transition from capitalism. First the state seizes materials, machinery, money, etc away from the capitalists and corporations, redistributes the seized wealth according to need, and then it relinquishes control of production to the workers and of the governance to community structures and dissolves itself. That last step has never happened at a national scale in human history. State-run communism is not communism, by definition. It’s just capitalism where the state leadership are the only capitalists.
Amen
I have not ever heard such a bang on take vs communism on the internet before. Upvotes for you.
The Roman dictators were unlike what we think of a dictator nowadays. From Wikipedia:
Worked out fairly well for the Roman Republic, until Julius Caesar became dictator-for-life which a lot of people didn’t like. You can guess how that ended.
You mean killing him was a bad idea?
I heard that Brutus is an honourable man. Dude that told me sounded a little sarcastic tho, not sure if he was for real.
No because its still a single person imposing their will on an entire country and only giving them what they feel they deserve.
The ultimate form of government will always be a democracy. People should work together to build society. It may be slower but thats fine, government doesnt need to move fast and break things.
Even in a democracy, you will still have a small group of people imposing their will over others, and only giving them what they feel they deserve. The only difference you are seeing is that of scale. Instead of a collection of elected representatives who are granted disparate powers by the plurality of people they are ruling over in their various capacities as governors, a benevolent dictatorship has one person who is granted all governmental powers by the people they are ruling over. Even a democracy can, briefly, be a tyranny. It just requires multiple bad actors to work together.
The primary difference is how long it takes for the wheels to fall off. In a dictatorship, it can - and usually does - happen virtually instantly. That’s the primary reason democracies (and republics) are the way they are - to slow down the encroachment of tyranny, hopefully enough to allow people to react to it and overturn it. (And as we’re seeing in the USA right now, that’s no guarantee.)
Yeah, it seems like it would be one of the better forms of government. The problem I see is having a human as said dictator. And I don’t see any way of making something like an AI that isn’t compromised.
Not to get all “human nature”, but there’s a primal appeal of fascist rhetoric, particularly when it is couched within the urgency of media misinformation and real material economic decay.
People who are overworked, underfed, and deluged with propaganda are primed to accept the “evil foreigners have inflicted this upon you” rhetoric. The states where Republicans outperform tend to be states with large O&G based economies, with people who feel their livelihoods are predicated on petroleum production and export. Downturns in these economies are blamed on Muslims, who just happen to be the majority faith in rival oil exporting nations. The opioid crisis and its socio-economic impacts have very real material consequences to impoverished communities, but the domestic pharmaceutical industry employs and enriches a lot of people. So its easier to blame China than the Sackler Family, in the same way it was easier to blame Jimmy Carter and public housing policies from the 1970s than the Mega-Banks back during the '08 financial crash. High health care costs and housing / education / credit card debts are, similarly, problems that can be displaced onto migrants “stealing” limited resources and PoC getting special government subsidies offered by evil liberal socialists. And “crime” as an eternal bugaboo haunts every local news network and AM Talk Radio show in the country, justifying ever more draconian police and surveillance.
You don’t even have to limit yourself to the Republican Party to find this compelling. How many liberals are fully sold on the idea that Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran are behind all of America’s domestic failings? How many people were willing to throw Muslim and Transgender voters under the bus because Kamala Harris lost the 2024 election?
Fascist rhetoric is appealing because it offers a very simple, straightforward, and violently final solution to a host of perceived social problems. It promises immediate relief from your pain. It promises schadenfreude as a kind of restitution for accumulated injustices. And it promises to make you impervious to future harms, through the terror you invoke in your enemies.
It’s an instinctual social response. One that aspiring politicians play on to build popular movements and seize power from sclerotic bureaucracies. And when you’re feeling the impulse, it doesn’t feel wicked or wrong. It feels justified and deeply satisfying.
Learned a new word: sclerosis. Thanks!
🤣🤣🤣
You could replace that with “evil old people” and it would be mostly correct.
“Evil Old People” survivor bias.
The Greenpeace was old people. The Black Panthers was old people. The anti-war movements have been old people going back centuries.
Whatever generation we’re on didn’t invent good politics from whole cloth.
Uh yes it did it’s me, all my takes are the right ones and always will be
Yeah but only when it’s applied to others