Eh. I would wager they just don’t want to. Which is fine. But lots of people rather than saying they don’t want. Say they don’t know how. As an excuse.

Because you’re capable of following a set of instructions and when there’s something you don’t fully understand you try to look it up knowing you have the world’s combined knowledge at your fingertips.

I’m not moving anything. We have the same basic opinion. “Visa and MasterCard should not be allowed to leverage their monopolized position into a morality police of what we are allowed to buy or not”

I’m not here to debate you on what is you think is objectionable or not. I simply stated that I wish for people to not make this about porn. Because I don’t think that’s going to be helpful. You’re just giving ammunition for the opposition to use against you. It will take them 5 seconds to use it against you and reach an audience of 100 million. You will have to spend 50 minutes trying to counter, and it will only reach the 10 million that actually bothered to look into it.

How many times do we have to go down this road before anyone learn from it?

So what is the solution? Don’t give them that ammunition to begin with. Use other arguments. Arguments that can not be turned against you.

You don’t have to agree with that advice. That’s fine.

Why would you be advocating for a different term other than CP? It doesn’t matter how you depict it. Consensual or not. Abuse or not. CP is CP, and that is bad enough. Anyway. That’s not the topic. I was just floored by that statement.

Point is. It seems like you DO compromise. Everyone does. Somewhere you’ve drawn a line. This is acceptable. This is not acceptable. And regardless of what you think of incest. I’m sure you can agree, that the vast majority of people would frown upon it. And if you say “Visa and MasterCard are bad because they stopped authorizing payments to incest games”. Well… You’re just not going to get a lot of people to sign up. They’re gonna say. “Good.”

So, trying to build momentum in a movement, and then using or citing incest porn games on steam as the catalyst, is just not a particularly good strategy in my opinion.

Porn is art, there’s no compromising on that without throwing someone under the bus.

Would you consider child pornography art as well? You don’t compromise, that’s what you said no?

Could you elaborate on what “respectability politics” is? I’ve never heard that before.

Point is. Making a movement and using the removal of games that fetishize incest as the drop that made the cup overflow. Is simply not going to go the way you think it is. Unless you think it’s going to crash and burn. Then it’ll go exactly how you think it’ll go.

You can make at least 101 far better arguments against Visa and MasterCard using their monopolized position to morally dictate what people can and can not buy, than having to involve incest porn. Or porn at all for that matter.

That’s great, not great that they removed it but a great example of something you can bring up that doesn’t hurt the case.

I just really wish people would leave actual porn games out of it. Because that is not going to be helpful to their case.

What if players take the elements of the game to create something the developers didn’t prevent? Like if a map contains a baby on one side of a map and an orgy (in another office) on the other side of the map, is it CP if a player picks up the baby and brings it into the orgy room? Is this something you want the banks deciding?

I said I wish removal of titles would be because of other reasons than payment processors having an issue with it. So to be clear. The answer to your question of if it should be up to banks to decide, is “No”.

Additionally, let’s talk about what makes porn. Does “https://yakuza.fandom.com/wiki/Be_My_Baby” of Yakuza 2 count? Or does it get a free pass because it’s a large publisher?

We don’t need to talk about what makes porn. Though it may have been unclear, the titles I spoke of, was the ones Steam removed after PayPal wasn’t authorizing payments. The “Incest porn games”. I don’t know what the law says where you live. But in my part of the world. Incest is illegal. And I do not think games where incest is the goal and depicted as a fetish have any place on steam.

It’s ok if you want incest games on steam. That’s your opinion. I just said I welcome their removal. But wish they would have been removed due to other reasons.

I completely understand wanting to fight Visa and MasterCards position in the market. That’s fine.

But for the love of God. Do not involve Steam and various porn games into it. That is not going to help your case.

I get the whole. “Just because I’m killing someone in a game, doesn’t mean I’ll kill someone in real life”.

But that’s not going to hold up as an argument here. Depictions of CP, even if it’s a drawing with crayons, is still highly illegal in so many places. Same logic can be applied regarding other depictions of illegal behavior in the same category (pornogrophy). Such as incest. I’m not saying that depictions of incest is illegal in many places. Because I honestly don’t know. But there would be a precedence for it.

Personally, I find it utterly disgusting that Steam even allowed such titles to begin with. I welcome their removal of them. But I wish it was because of other reasons than payment processors having an issue with it.

I don’t know exactly how TSA works, I have not flown that much within the US. But I agree that’s pretty bullshit.

I’ve never been afraid of a copycat. Not once.

I will let you take a second. And think about why it only happened once.

Yeah I’ve seen those. I think… I know I’ve seen what looks like that. But if the technology inside is updated I can’t say I know. Never had a problem with my balls being too warm in them. And I can’t recall ever having my shoes on inside. Always had to put them aside. But that could easily just be airport policy at the time.

Anyhow… what irked me was the post acting like scanning shoes was some fake phony security scam. Almost every single airline and airport policy is there for a reason.

E.g. after the Lockerby tragedy. Airlines had to make sure that every single bag has a passenger that is on board the plane. As someone had checked in a bag with explosives, and then never boarded himself.

Regardless, someone did try to blow up a plane with explosives hidden in their shoe. It’s a very well documented incident.

After that incident. Security was stepped up globally, we had to start putting shoes to be xrayed, and we never saw a single case of anyone trying to smuggle explosives on board in their shoe ever again.

If it’s removed completely, it’s because they have other methods that make it obsolete.

Aviation rarely make the same mistake twice (Boeing goes hold my beer).

When I was a kid, I got to step inside the cockpit and say hello to the pilots and look at all the instruments, mid flight. After my grandmother asked if that was ok. Fat chance of that ever happening again after 9-11

According to Australian Border control. They specifically swab feet and shoes, to test for traces of drugs on people they think look suspicious. Or people flying in from high risk areas.

And the times where I’ve flown to the US from Amsterdam, Munich, Frankfurt, and Copenhagen. I was always put in a room where they swabbed my stuff, hands, feet, phone, laptop (at the gate). And I asked them why and what they’re looking for. They gave me the answer that they are mostly looking for drugs.

As drug smuggling is something they deal with every. Single. Day. where as people trying to board with explosives is extreamly rare.

I did not say they care if you have drugs in your system. I specifically said the opposite.

They just want to make sure you’re not carrying drugs on you. Those who have drugs in their system, are far more likely to smuggle drugs than those who don’t.

They 100% swab your feet and inside of the shoe for drugs.

Hands and close personal items, such as wallets and electronics are for multiple reasons. Including explosives.

The machine they put the swabs in can detect multiple substances, explosive compounds, precursors, drugs.

They don’t care if you got traces of drugs in your system. But they do care about you trying to smuggle it. That’s why they test for Traces, externally and internally.

My guy. The type of xray they scan your bags with are not what they scan you with.

The reason they swab shoes is not to detect explosives. It’s to detect drugs. If you take hard drugs, or swallow bags, they can often see traces of it in your sweat. And shoes are a fantastic source of sweat.

I’m saying the exact opposite.

The scanner you put your bags, electronics, jackets, and shoes on. Are different than the scanner you walk through.

That’s why they ask you to put your shoes there.

I’m sorry but I cannot understand what you’re trying to say. The xray they use to scan your bags are not the same as the one you go through.

In case you were unaware. “Richard shoe bomber” did not have metal or electronics in his shoe. He had simply put explosives in the sole of the shoe with a fuse attached.

He was caught and restrained when he tried to light the fuse on the airplane.

What a dumb post. Or is this coming from the generation that never heard of “Richard shoe bomber” who is the reason some have to scan their shoes.

Att first i thought it was just PayPal. Not great but ok. Fair enough.

But Visa and MasterCard blocking stuff is not ok. Their position is too big. And too crucial in the infrastructure.

But. A bank that can get something new rolling should profit quite well, which is a good incentive to come up with alternative