Please go into lots of detail - some of us are taking notes!
I went to Norway. Big recommend. That said, I refuse to call myself an expat or use the term expatriate. I am an immigrant. I think it is weird that white westerners get a special word and everybody else are filthy immigrants.
It’s semantics but the difference between expat and immigrants is an expat intends to return to their home country some day, where an immigrant does not.
Yes, but connotatively it is just a marker of privilege. Especially here, since what we’re talking about is immigration, not temporary work.
it’s racism
if a westerner works with plans to return they are called expat, if it’s a non western, they are called migrants labour or foreign workers and are treated like shit.
they dont like to be called immigrants, because then they would have to be labeled like the “brown people” they say have hawking over.
I’m German and as far as I’m concerned the people who want to flee the current US administration are exactly the type of people you want to welcome with open arms.
the ones that cant stop sucking off trump, arent even leaving usa anyways(trump supporters/liberterians), they are too inside thier bubble. scientists and mds and engineers have much more options than people with non-graduate degrees unfortunately.
As a trans woman I might need somewhere to go and I desperately hope that when that day comes someone like you is in charge if deciding if I get to stay.
Are you specifically talking about north americans of european descent? As if Germany isn’t dipping right into their pre WW2 culture with Merz as chancellor and AfD getting more votes each year 🤡
Deutschland den Deutsche, Ausländer Raus
Here in Canada we’re trying to catch America’s brain drain. We especially need doctors quite desperately.
So, it’s not just theoretical for me. I left the US earlier this year and moved to Iceland. Planning started almost a year before that. It is hard for Americans to move to a lot of European countries, and Iceland isn’t an exception.
I hired an immigration attorney in Iceland to help make sure I did everything correctly. That cost about $10k as a retainer. It was worth every penny. If you’re taking notes, that’s pretty much the only one you need. Every country has different rules and laws regarding Americans moving to their country. And just like in America, if you have an issue with the law, you need to hire an attorney. They will help you understand every relevant law that exists that applies to you that may very well not be available in English. Hire a local expert.
I’m not very young, so I paid to move my stuff here. I also paid to move my electric vehicle because gas costs the equivalent of about $10 per gallon, plus there are some serious CO2 taxes here. That cost about another $20k. About two thirds moving the stuff, and one third moving the car.
In retrospect, moving the stuff was a good idea. I have lots of things that are just incredibly hard to get here, or take forever to get if you want them. And I saved enough money to be worth it. If you look at something like a KitchenAid mixer, it costs the equivalent of $1k here. If I sold my old one for used price and bought a new one here, I’d lose most of a thousand bucks. So you only need to do that a few times to make moving your stuff worth it.
I also saved money on importing my car over just buying a new one, but it was such a fucking hassle that if I were to do it again, I’d have just bought one here. I didn’t save enough to make it worth it.
I’m not sure how useful my experience will be now. When I started talking to my immigration attorney, I explained that it seemed likely to me that after trump was reelected that Americans were going to panic and rush for the exits. I felt that it was likely that the countries would respond by doing exactly what America does: freak out about having too many immigrants and change the rules to make it harder to get in.
Based on a recent conversation with my attorney, it seems that I was right. The rules have changed enough that the path that we used for residency has now been more more seriously restricted. The attorney’s office was inundated with requests from Americans and they were working 12+ hour days for a few months just trying to respond to all the requests.
I know some folks have strong feelings that people should stay and fight. But I feel like we have fought the good fight for a long time. That went all the way from starting non-profits, to being involved locally, and all the way to running for public office. I’m not interested in identifying myself too much, but I will say that that the person we lost that election to was openly known to have been fired previously for having embezzled money, but voters didn’t care because they got to vote for team ® in our red state.
So from my perspective, there is a cancer that is eating America. I’ve tried hard to remove it. I’ve tried hard to treat it. Ultimately, it seems to have metastisized to the point that it is incurable. You can either keep up with the radiation and chemo and be miserable until you die, or you can stop treatment and do your best to enjoy the time that is left.
For me, moving to Iceland is my version of stopping treatment to enjoy what life I have left. And if you want to fight to the bitter end, or if you want to search for a better life in another country, I wish each and every one of you the very best on your journey.
I’m glad you had the means to make it out.
The vast majority of Americans, sadly, do not.
American here. Can confirm; do not have $30,000. I just managed to scrounge up $5500 for the minimum possible downpayment on a house in northern Maine; the bluest, closest to Canada place, where people like to mind their own business and not fuck with anyone else for no reason. The Canadian escape route is real, though.
I do hear good things about Portugal. I was thinking Spain, but they seem to be having their own issues right now. This timeline is definitely off the rails.
There were some very fucked up things happening in our very red state, both in general and to us in particular. We had considered something similar, like moving to Maine or Vermont. These things happened just at the right time in 2024 that it was obvious that trump was going to win, but we still had time to plan to get out before he did.
We figured if we were going to go through the hassle of moving far enough away that any friends or family were going to fly to come vist us, that just moving to a blue state wasn’t good enough. We figured that when trump was reelected that even blue states wouldn’t be safe enough.
And believe me, I am well aware of how fortunate I am, because I was not always so fortunate. I realize that not everyone can do it. There were a couple of women married to each other that lived near us that were scared as hell, but they couldn’t afford to move to any of the places they were researching.
I researched Canada thoroughly, and I think I even (used to, before trump’s shenanigans) qualify for expedited citizenship. I also work remotely, for a global company, and will just keep my job. Unfortunately there were just too many costs involved, and I couldn’t foot the bill. It sucks, because you get a lot more house for a lot fewer dollars up there. I haven’t given up though. But it’s at least a year or two down the road.
Canadas housing situation is worse than the US I thought, at least in the places most people live.
I can’t really speak to that. I can only speak to the fact that the houses I was looking at were what I would consider a very good value for the money, at least compared to what you can get in the US these days.
Good luck then!
Já maður, Bandaríkin sökka velkominn til landsins.
Takk fyrir.
Bombandi, já maður! Velkomin/n!
Má ég spyrja: Hvers vegna Ísland? Hvernig gengur að læra tungumálið? Hvernig gengur að finna vinnu? Nærðu að vingast við fólk?
(Feel free to respond in English, it’s a bitch of a language to learn)
Ok, without cheating, I can read:
_____, yeah man! Welcome.
May I ask, why Iceland? How goes learning the language? How goes finding work? Something something with people?
So, Iceland is rated top 5 in pretty much every happiness or quality of life rating there is. They are still focused on freedom and education of people, so hopefully the descent into fascism is much further away. Also, I have some allergies that are causing other problems, so moving to a place with many months of no pollen was a good thing for me. That and the northern lights make the winter a positive for me, not a negative.
Learning the language is hard, as you say. I’ve been very lucky to move to a place and make friends with a lot of people who are helping me learn a lot. They have patience with me and repeat things slowly. I try to pick up a few words a day. I am maybe at the level of a toddler. I can pick out enough words and read body language well enough to get the context, but I can’t really make sentences well. And all of the people helping me learn is a double edged sword. They don’t want to act like talking to a toddler all day, so we end up speaking English a lot.
The work thing is turning out pretty ok. I might be able to get a bit of consulting gig going, or I may look for a remote job in Europe. Maybe both. I’m very fortunate to have money enough to pay cash for a decent house and have money enough to live off of for a few years once I don’t have rent to pay, so that hasn’t been as much of a priority for me. This has been more of a vacation for a bit.
So I cheated to find out the last question: Do I manage to make friends with people? Yes! This has been the biggest surprise. Most sources that we read on the internet told us that as a foreigner, wed always be on the outsiders. The perspective that we read is that everyone is everyone’s frændi, and we’re just always going to be on the outside. Perhaps we got very lucky, but it seems that we’ve found a way to become a part of the local community. It’s a little village in the north, so it’s perhaps better to make friends than in the capitol. They mostly seem to be happy to see people actually moving in instead of out.
Æðislegt! Gaman að heyra!
Yeah the friend thing is always tricky but if you’re open (as you clearly are) there’s always a community to be found with some tenacity!
Glad to have you 🤘
Ireland. I’m a firm believer that if you move to a region that speaks a different language, you need to make a genuine effort to learn that language. After having 3 years of foreign language (including a year of Gaelic when I lived in Ireland as a child for a year), I know it’s not my thing, so an English speaking country is a requirement for me. Ireland is gorgeous, and still in the EU. Scotland would also be top of the list if they split from the UK and joined the EU.
As a member of the CAF, if the US Armed Forces are getting rid of LGBTQ folks, I would be proud to welcome them as my comrades in arms.
Canadian Air Force?
Canada is certainly on my list of hopeful places.
Not quite. CAF is Canadian Armed Forces. The Air Force, specifically is the RCAF.
Thanks
Californian - i want us, oregon, and washington to join canada.
I feel like if CA were to leave the US it would join Mexico, not Canada
Rejoin
fuck no lol joining mexico is submitting yourself to the rule of cartels. Theyre super corrupt.
Mexico == cartels???
Finland or Norway.
I’ve always thought there’s two kinds of Americans; the ones who have a passport and the ones who don’t.
If they’re willing to explore the world and recognise the US isn’t the whole universe I find them to be totally fine.
Anywhere cold, with decent social services, good shipping, and people that leave me alone on the whole.
Ah, welcome to the Nordics!
Hard as fuck to get in, or so I’ve heard.
The shipping might be slower than you’re used to, but we check of on the rest.See you soon?
I wish I could see you all soon. I’ve looked at it a lot over the years, not just when shit got bad here. And would honestly I would love to live there. Looked hard into Norway for awhile and talked to Norwegians in their subreddit, but the hardest part would be getting a job as a foreigner as it sounds like jobs are very heavily weighted towards “who you know”. Since I’m not the most socially invested person and a foreigner, the Norwegians I talked with made it sound like it’d be problematic.
Yeah it’s tricky, but not impossible. We are small, but not small enough for most jobs to be handed out based on nepotism.
I’d say the main hurdle is language. If you don’t speak Norwegian, or another Scandinavian language, the selection of jobs shrinks considerably.
If you actually wish to move, I’d recommend looking for jobs on Finn.no and apply when something relevant pops up.
Being non-socially invested doesn’t disqualify you.Let me know if you’re serious and want some help.
I have some other constraints at the moment that mean I’m probably a year out or more, but that’s perhaps not a bad timeline to work with.
I am definitely limited by my lack of language skills. I have some german but that won’t be much help further north.
I’ll start looking on finn.no, do you know of any other sites I should use? Know any good language programs outside of the standard suggestions like duolingo?
Finn is the dominant one by a longshot.
A few positions could be posted on nav.no (government social security firm), but it’s not really worth checking.For language, if you’re serious, I’d probably find a Discord channel for people wanting to learn. It’s literally how I met the missus.
We all learn differently, but finding someone with a shared hobby that you can talk to while doing said hobby is effective. We had gaming in common.
Talking is, at least for me, a million times better than reading and studying.Best of luck to you, and let me know if you have any questions.
And: it’s not utopia here. We have issues as well. Just make sure you remove any rose tinted glasses before comitting countless hours.
I’m aware that nowhere is utopia. 😊 But it’s not a minority-captured christofascist looney bin run by a geriatric dementia patient hell bent on destroying every opportunity for me and my family, like the usa so I can deal with other potential downsides. Lol
Thanks for the discord suggestion and advice, I appreciate it.
Brit here. I’d be happy to accept Dem voters. Fart voters can stay at home and eat their own dogshit. Non-voters too; they knew exactly who FartV1 was and I am genuinely surprised Harris couldn’t get in simply on “I’m not Fart”. They really thought she’d be worse?
And for those who get over here by lying about their vote; they incriminate themselves, and will be deported the moment we discover the truth.
They really thought she’d be worse?
For the love of God, please stop spreading this mode of thinking. Elections are won by enthusiasm, not an intellectual weighing of the pros and cons of each. This is the model Democrats have used for decades that got us here. Being the lesser evil is not a solid campaign strategy. The greater evil will always get more attention, and therefore enthusiasm.
I don’t think this is an exclusively American thing. Did Brits really think brexit was a good idea?
evidence came out it was also rigged, and it has been for the last 2 times too. she wouldve won regardless, but the problem is DNc dint call out to be investigated for fear of being called riggers themselves. and waited when it was almost a year to finally say, we think its rigged?
It wasn’t rigged. Even if it were rigged, it should never have been close enough to be rigged, but it wasn’t rigged. If the DNC waited to say it was rigged, they are still waiting because they haven’t said they think it’s rigged, but their not waiting, because it wasn’t rigged.
Costa Rica 🇨🇷
Our country attracts a lot of American tourists, they mainly go to the beaches and national parks but I have seen them on my city sometimes
I’m fine with it, I highly suggest you learn Spanish since we are a Spanish-speaking country, and you can only see English on the tourist areas
Also if you want to become a citizen you need to do some sort of exam that for most foreign people is hard. Just so y’all know
Hi, I am an American and will be visiting your country very soon! I’ve never been outside of the US and know very little Spanish. I’m going with a family member who is getting dental work done and well be in San Jose. We’re very excited for the trip, do you have any tips for first timers?
Thanks for visiting us!
Regarding San Jose, unfortunately there isn’t a lot to do there, the most you can do is visit museums (National Museum, Pre-Columbian Gold Museum, Jade Museum, alongside others, visit some volcanoes (Poás, Irazu, and maybe the Turrialba Volcano), visit old buildings (Plaza de la Cultura as an example), and that’s pretty much it
I think you would like places like Monteverde or La Fortuna.
Regarding money exchange, do it on Banco Nacional (BN) or in Banco de Costa Rica (BCR). If you do it on the airport or in any other place you might be scammed
Use Uber, if you use taxis they will know you’re a tourist and will charge you the double
Avoid Jaco, it’s kind of dangerous
And finally, be careful with prices on the airport, a lot of things are overpriced such as this
I appreciate the response. We’ll try our best to get out to some of the other towns, but our main focus is the dental work. I appreciate all of the tips and suggestions!
Don’t plan to be in San Jose. Doesn’t have more to give for tourist than maybe a day of museums.
Learning Spanish thoroughly would be difficult, but I think I could get to conversational with a couple months effort. Taking tests is my one great talent. Tests don’t scare me. History? Government? Society? I will learn that in a week if I can read the material I will be tested on.
Finding work scares me. I can’t live outside the country for my current job.
Germany. I might be able to claim ancestry rights. Ironic that my great grandmother fled fascism in Germany but I’d flee America to return to the motherland.
That’s not how it works hun. You’d have to go through the regular process of becoming a citizen by immigration.
Ancestry rights≠automatic citizenship and the person you’re responding to didn’t make that claim.
Yeah, it’s just one of the avenues. I could also just get a job there as I’m in tech, I’m not quite fluent in German yet especially when it comes to tech jargon. But I’m getting there.
Depending on your field tech jargon is probably all english even in Germany.
It is according to some Dutch friends in the Netherlands.
Software engineering. There is a lot of cognates yeah
Cognates? Mate, unless you work for some company stuck in the 60s the entire tech jargon is english, it’s the exact same words.
As a Canadian, it appears to me that most of the Americans who want to move here are doing so because they like and support the way that Canada is currently functioning, and that’s fine by me.
Immigrants who want the country to change for them are problematic. I almost think that first generation immigrants shouldn’t get to vote, it should be a gift to their children rather than themselves. That shouldn’t even need the child to be born in Canada, I’d actually be fine with anyone who goes through at least half their primary education (so let’s say grade 7 or younger) here being included if they moved here with their parents when they were younger.
Why would you assume that every single (non American) immigrant that comes here would want to change the way Canada is run? Considering the vast majority come here because they like the way it’s run. This is such a wild take.
Besides, the politics of this country were built on genocide and do not reflect the values of the land’s original caretakers that were here for tens of thousands of years. But I guess those first immigrants were correct in changing the way things are run here and so we should be upholding their values and their values only??
I hate the original people argument. There is no land on this earth that wasn’t conquered multiple times. Even the first nations in North America warred against each other and took land from each other many times before the Europeans showed up. It wasn’t a giant happy campfire singalong for 10,000 years.
Netherlands here. The 862.409 Americans that voted for a better country (Jill Stein voters) are more than welcome here. Also, those who face illegal prosecution and genuine threat from the government, ICE and police. The rest would just move our political compass further to the authoritarian side, dems or reps.
If I lived in a parlimentary democracy I would vote for the farthest left party I could find.
Also not always the best choice. Here in Germany the farthest left party is BSW and those are those that would crawl up Tsar Putin’s ass in an instant, that basically think you should talk to the bully and he’ll come to its senses and stops bullying others. So, the highest level of disillusion you can imagine. Even the green party has finally realised the only way to deal with bullies is NOT to “give in and be the better person”.
I sympathise with anarchism so I wouldn’t vote for marxists or a party that sucks up to dictators.
Jill stein is a putin hack much like RFK jr is, she only appears every 4 years to siphon dem voters, all her votes were republicans, she would have the worst people going to other countries,.
Appears to siphon dem voters <> All her votes were republican
The lazy foreigners don’t do anything <> The foreigners are taking all our jobs
Please let me know how you figure that “all her votes were republicans”, I’m very interested.
