Please go into lots of detail - some of us are taking notes!
I went to Norway. Big recommend. That said, I refuse to call myself an expat or use the term expatriate. I am an immigrant. I think it is weird that white westerners get a special word and everybody else are filthy immigrants.
It’s semantics but the difference between expat and immigrants is an expat intends to return to their home country some day, where an immigrant does not.
Yes, but connotatively it is just a marker of privilege. Especially here, since what we’re talking about is immigration, not temporary work.
it’s racism
if a westerner works with plans to return they are called expat, if it’s a non western, they are called migrants labour or foreign workers and are treated like shit.
they dont like to be called immigrants, because then they would have to be labeled like the “brown people” they say have hawking over.
I’m German and as far as I’m concerned the people who want to flee the current US administration are exactly the type of people you want to welcome with open arms.
As a trans woman I might need somewhere to go and I desperately hope that when that day comes someone like you is in charge if deciding if I get to stay.
the ones that cant stop sucking off trump, arent even leaving usa anyways(trump supporters/liberterians), they are too inside thier bubble. scientists and mds and engineers have much more options than people with non-graduate degrees unfortunately.
Are you specifically talking about north americans of european descent? As if Germany isn’t dipping right into their pre WW2 culture with Merz as chancellor and AfD getting more votes each year 🤡
Deutschland den Deutsche, Ausländer Raus
So, it’s not just theoretical for me. I left the US earlier this year and moved to Iceland. Planning started almost a year before that. It is hard for Americans to move to a lot of European countries, and Iceland isn’t an exception.
I hired an immigration attorney in Iceland to help make sure I did everything correctly. That cost about $10k as a retainer. It was worth every penny. If you’re taking notes, that’s pretty much the only one you need. Every country has different rules and laws regarding Americans moving to their country. And just like in America, if you have an issue with the law, you need to hire an attorney. They will help you understand every relevant law that exists that applies to you that may very well not be available in English. Hire a local expert.
I’m not very young, so I paid to move my stuff here. I also paid to move my electric vehicle because gas costs the equivalent of about $10 per gallon, plus there are some serious CO2 taxes here. That cost about another $20k. About two thirds moving the stuff, and one third moving the car.
In retrospect, moving the stuff was a good idea. I have lots of things that are just incredibly hard to get here, or take forever to get if you want them. And I saved enough money to be worth it. If you look at something like a KitchenAid mixer, it costs the equivalent of $1k here. If I sold my old one for used price and bought a new one here, I’d lose most of a thousand bucks. So you only need to do that a few times to make moving your stuff worth it.
I also saved money on importing my car over just buying a new one, but it was such a fucking hassle that if I were to do it again, I’d have just bought one here. I didn’t save enough to make it worth it.
I’m not sure how useful my experience will be now. When I started talking to my immigration attorney, I explained that it seemed likely to me that after trump was reelected that Americans were going to panic and rush for the exits. I felt that it was likely that the countries would respond by doing exactly what America does: freak out about having too many immigrants and change the rules to make it harder to get in.
Based on a recent conversation with my attorney, it seems that I was right. The rules have changed enough that the path that we used for residency has now been more more seriously restricted. The attorney’s office was inundated with requests from Americans and they were working 12+ hour days for a few months just trying to respond to all the requests.
I know some folks have strong feelings that people should stay and fight. But I feel like we have fought the good fight for a long time. That went all the way from starting non-profits, to being involved locally, and all the way to running for public office. I’m not interested in identifying myself too much, but I will say that that the person we lost that election to was openly known to have been fired previously for having embezzled money, but voters didn’t care because they got to vote for team ® in our red state.
So from my perspective, there is a cancer that is eating America. I’ve tried hard to remove it. I’ve tried hard to treat it. Ultimately, it seems to have metastisized to the point that it is incurable. You can either keep up with the radiation and chemo and be miserable until you die, or you can stop treatment and do your best to enjoy the time that is left.
For me, moving to Iceland is my version of stopping treatment to enjoy what life I have left. And if you want to fight to the bitter end, or if you want to search for a better life in another country, I wish each and every one of you the very best on your journey.
I know some folks have strong feelings that people should stay and fight
As someone who thinks that. Sounds like you already fought your fight. And if you already tried it’s fair enough to move on.
I’m glad you had the means to make it out.
The vast majority of Americans, sadly, do not.
American here. Can confirm; do not have $30,000. I just managed to scrounge up $5500 for the minimum possible downpayment on a house in northern Maine; the bluest, closest to Canada place, where people like to mind their own business and not fuck with anyone else for no reason. The Canadian escape route is real, though.
I do hear good things about Portugal. I was thinking Spain, but they seem to be having their own issues right now. This timeline is definitely off the rails.
There were some very fucked up things happening in our very red state, both in general and to us in particular. We had considered something similar, like moving to Maine or Vermont. These things happened just at the right time in 2024 that it was obvious that trump was going to win, but we still had time to plan to get out before he did.
We figured if we were going to go through the hassle of moving far enough away that any friends or family were going to fly to come vist us, that just moving to a blue state wasn’t good enough. We figured that when trump was reelected that even blue states wouldn’t be safe enough.
And believe me, I am well aware of how fortunate I am, because I was not always so fortunate. I realize that not everyone can do it. There were a couple of women married to each other that lived near us that were scared as hell, but they couldn’t afford to move to any of the places they were researching.
I researched Canada thoroughly, and I think I even (used to, before trump’s shenanigans) qualify for expedited citizenship. I also work remotely, for a global company, and will just keep my job. Unfortunately there were just too many costs involved, and I couldn’t foot the bill. It sucks, because you get a lot more house for a lot fewer dollars up there. I haven’t given up though. But it’s at least a year or two down the road.
Canadas housing situation is worse than the US I thought, at least in the places most people live.
I can’t really speak to that. I can only speak to the fact that the houses I was looking at were what I would consider a very good value for the money, at least compared to what you can get in the US these days.
Good luck then!
Já maður, Bandaríkin sökka velkominn til landsins.
Takk fyrir.
Bombandi, já maður! Velkomin/n!
Má ég spyrja: Hvers vegna Ísland? Hvernig gengur að læra tungumálið? Hvernig gengur að finna vinnu? Nærðu að vingast við fólk?
(Feel free to respond in English, it’s a bitch of a language to learn)
Ok, without cheating, I can read:
_____, yeah man! Welcome.
May I ask, why Iceland? How goes learning the language? How goes finding work? Something something with people?
So, Iceland is rated top 5 in pretty much every happiness or quality of life rating there is. They are still focused on freedom and education of people, so hopefully the descent into fascism is much further away. Also, I have some allergies that are causing other problems, so moving to a place with many months of no pollen was a good thing for me. That and the northern lights make the winter a positive for me, not a negative.
Learning the language is hard, as you say. I’ve been very lucky to move to a place and make friends with a lot of people who are helping me learn a lot. They have patience with me and repeat things slowly. I try to pick up a few words a day. I am maybe at the level of a toddler. I can pick out enough words and read body language well enough to get the context, but I can’t really make sentences well. And all of the people helping me learn is a double edged sword. They don’t want to act like talking to a toddler all day, so we end up speaking English a lot.
The work thing is turning out pretty ok. I might be able to get a bit of consulting gig going, or I may look for a remote job in Europe. Maybe both. I’m very fortunate to have money enough to pay cash for a decent house and have money enough to live off of for a few years once I don’t have rent to pay, so that hasn’t been as much of a priority for me. This has been more of a vacation for a bit.
So I cheated to find out the last question: Do I manage to make friends with people? Yes! This has been the biggest surprise. Most sources that we read on the internet told us that as a foreigner, wed always be on the outsiders. The perspective that we read is that everyone is everyone’s frændi, and we’re just always going to be on the outside. Perhaps we got very lucky, but it seems that we’ve found a way to become a part of the local community. It’s a little village in the north, so it’s perhaps better to make friends than in the capitol. They mostly seem to be happy to see people actually moving in instead of out.
Æðislegt! Gaman að heyra!
Yeah the friend thing is always tricky but if you’re open (as you clearly are) there’s always a community to be found with some tenacity!
Glad to have you 🤘
Ireland. I’m a firm believer that if you move to a region that speaks a different language, you need to make a genuine effort to learn that language. After having 3 years of foreign language (including a year of Gaelic when I lived in Ireland as a child for a year), I know it’s not my thing, so an English speaking country is a requirement for me. Ireland is gorgeous, and still in the EU. Scotland would also be top of the list if they split from the UK and joined the EU.
Americans would do anything to not call a general strike.
I’ve always thought there’s two kinds of Americans; the ones who have a passport and the ones who don’t.
If they’re willing to explore the world and recognise the US isn’t the whole universe I find them to be totally fine.
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Here in Canada we’re trying to catch America’s brain drain. We especially need doctors quite desperately.
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As a Canadian, it appears to me that most of the Americans who want to move here are doing so because they like and support the way that Canada is currently functioning, and that’s fine by me.
Immigrants who want the country to change for them are problematic. I almost think that first generation immigrants shouldn’t get to vote, it should be a gift to their children rather than themselves. That shouldn’t even need the child to be born in Canada, I’d actually be fine with anyone who goes through at least half their primary education (so let’s say grade 7 or younger) here being included if they moved here with their parents when they were younger.
Why would you assume that every single (non American) immigrant that comes here would want to change the way Canada is run? Considering the vast majority come here because they like the way it’s run. This is such a wild take.
Besides, the politics of this country were built on genocide and do not reflect the values of the land’s original caretakers that were here for tens of thousands of years. But I guess those first immigrants were correct in changing the way things are run here and so we should be upholding their values and their values only??
I hate the original people argument. There is no land on this earth that wasn’t conquered multiple times. Even the first nations in North America warred against each other and took land from each other many times before the Europeans showed up. It wasn’t a giant happy campfire singalong for 10,000 years.
The kind of american that usually comes to Mexico is very nice, very welcome. Maybe the exceptions are the very loud and self absorbed ones that go to resort locations and act like they’re better than everyone there.
As long as people want to integrate and cooperate they are more than welcome.
Now, the sad part is the gentrification that comes with a lot of people moving and outpaying rent vs the locals. Now the average cost of living in Mexico city is about 50% higher than the average salary, and about 100% higher than the median salary. Another very negative thing is that now a lot of locals have to communicate in english because American people will come and not learn spanish over multiple years living here. There are zones where everything is in english now. It’s okay speaking english, it’s not okay expecting english from everyone.
So a few pointers:
- Integrate, pay taxes, consume locally
- Try and move into already gentrified places, avoid displacing more people
- Push for social policy, increased affordable living spaces, invest in the country where you move into to improve the locals’ life
Be friendly, but that’s always
Moving somewhere and not knowing the language is extremely common. My mother has been in the USA for 40 years and speaks very little English. She focuses on Spanish speaking neighborhoods and businesses.
Many of her friends have also been here decades and speak zero English too.
Finland or Norway.
Honestly lots of Western Europe, but personally: Iceland, Germany, Finland, Denmark, Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium, etc.
Objectively places like Spain, Portugal, Malta, etc. would work.
I have no delusions of ever making it as an immigrant in any of these countries. You need a lot of money.
As a member of the CAF, if the US Armed Forces are getting rid of LGBTQ folks, I would be proud to welcome them as my comrades in arms.
Canadian Air Force?
Canada is certainly on my list of hopeful places.
Not quite. CAF is Canadian Armed Forces. The Air Force, specifically is the RCAF.
Thanks
The Netherlands probably, but with the massive grain of salt that I suspect that choosing a “ideal place to live” without actually having been to that place is likely to result in a skewed idea of what a place is truly like, and as I’ve never been outside the United States I have that issue when thinking about any other country. I also doubt they or anywhere else that might make my list of ideal places would want me, seeing as I’m just some random factory worker without any especially rare skill.
Californian - i want us, oregon, and washington to join canada.
I feel like if CA were to leave the US it would join Mexico, not Canada
Rejoin
fuck no lol joining mexico is submitting yourself to the rule of cartels. Theyre super corrupt.
Mexico == cartels???
