people would literally rather turn into blitzed out new age panspiritualists than agree with a vegan that killing a cow isn’t equivalent to peeling a potato
yea fortunately there are plenty of other delicious things that don’t have a physiology that guarantees they have pretty much the same conscious experience as me
There’s a difference between not resenting and desiring. This is gonna sound crazy but I have actually taken a walk in the Savannah and was arguably close to being eaten by cheetahs.
More relevantly to your point though, I don’t really resent, for example, the people that inflicted trauma upon me in my youth. I don’t know what their life experience was and for all I know I could have done the same in their shoes. I don’t want to see these people and want nothing to do with them but resent them? Not really. Was them harming me but in a different world who knows, you know?
I think the same applies to any kind of infliction of suffering. Like, you don’t have to want or enjoy the suffering or even like the perpetrators one bit to be able to understand / forgive them for what they did.
I don’t expect you to agree. Just wanted to share my perspective. If you’d like to share yours I’d be more than happy to read you.
which… makes you feel justified in perpetuating suffering too? what? i sympathise for any trauma people might have inflicted on you in the past but i don’t know what this has to do with meat eating or plant sentience or any of the metaphysics of harm reduction or whatever else
It makes me feel justified to perpetrate the Inevitable suffering that is a side product of my existence, yes. Everything (that has a consciousness like our own if you want) causes something else to suffer by merely existing. The money you have in your wallet right now is money that other people don’t have. Biology works the same way.
Yeah, but spending a bunch of calories on something that doesn’t bring you a benefit.
I actively struggled with trying to describe this without ascribing intent to either natural selection or plants, but I’m just making my point badly. I independently conceived of it, though assume it’s not an original thought, so maybe if I get the time I’ll try to look for it.
No, that was the one example that I had considered and that was the rest of my original comment, but the production of defensive chemicals to the smell of damage in neighbors isn’t (afaik) universal among plants, and I’d be interested in whether the plants that we eat have that ability.
purpose is a made up thing that only exists within subjectivity.
people would literally rather turn into blitzed out new age panspiritualists than agree with a vegan that killing a cow isn’t equivalent to peeling a potato
Have you considered how delicious cows are though?
yea fortunately there are plenty of other delicious things that don’t have a physiology that guarantees they have pretty much the same conscious experience as me
Idk I woudn’t resent something if it ate me, especially if I was delicious and they were grateful for my sacrifice.
have you considered going for a long walk in the savannah, you could test that pretty quick
There’s a difference between not resenting and desiring. This is gonna sound crazy but I have actually taken a walk in the Savannah and was arguably close to being eaten by cheetahs.
More relevantly to your point though, I don’t really resent, for example, the people that inflicted trauma upon me in my youth. I don’t know what their life experience was and for all I know I could have done the same in their shoes. I don’t want to see these people and want nothing to do with them but resent them? Not really. Was them harming me but in a different world who knows, you know?
I think the same applies to any kind of infliction of suffering. Like, you don’t have to want or enjoy the suffering or even like the perpetrators one bit to be able to understand / forgive them for what they did.
I don’t expect you to agree. Just wanted to share my perspective. If you’d like to share yours I’d be more than happy to read you.
which… makes you feel justified in perpetuating suffering too? what? i sympathise for any trauma people might have inflicted on you in the past but i don’t know what this has to do with meat eating or plant sentience or any of the metaphysics of harm reduction or whatever else
It makes me feel justified to perpetrate the Inevitable suffering that is a side product of my existence, yes. Everything (that has a consciousness like our own if you want) causes something else to suffer by merely existing. The money you have in your wallet right now is money that other people don’t have. Biology works the same way.
Yeah, but spending a bunch of calories on something that doesn’t bring you a benefit.
I actively struggled with trying to describe this without ascribing intent to either natural selection or plants, but I’m just making my point badly. I independently conceived of it, though assume it’s not an original thought, so maybe if I get the time I’ll try to look for it.
maybe you’re not considering collective benefit / kin selection.
No, that was the one example that I had considered and that was the rest of my original comment, but the production of defensive chemicals to the smell of damage in neighbors isn’t (afaik) universal among plants, and I’d be interested in whether the plants that we eat have that ability.
idk if universal but afaik it’s very common.