Look, I hate the whole blue no matter who bullshit, too. And yeah, maybe your specific vote, for someone who didn’t win, didn’t change history. But you gotta admit that the system as it was, and is, does not favor splitting the the vote, since it’s winner takes all. Since we have only two parties powerful enough to potentially win on the national level, if you don’t like Republicans, you’re stuck with Democrats. If you don’t like Democrats, you’re stuck with Republicans. With the system as it is now, on a national level, that’s what we’re working with.
I want to fix that. We should fix that. I’d like to see the Republicans and Democrats ousted. I want to see ranked choice voting. I think you feel the same and I’m not even sure why you’re arguing with me at this point.
But if we want to have meaningful impact, we have to still work with this broken car we’re riding in while working on changing it for something better.
So yeah, vote third party at local levels and work our way up, push for voter reform and build a system that is more equitable, but also vote strategically. We no longer vote for, we vote against.
So you’re rejecting all political influence you would have in the Democratic party.
And the problem is this isn’t reciprocal. Look at the NY Mayoral election for a recent example. Vote Blue No Matter Who and prioritizing the lesser evil is ONLY ever applied one way.
There’s a great article from 2020 where the NY Times says the quiet part loud - several articles about how Democratic party insiders were “willing to risk party damage to stop Sanders”. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/27/us/politics/democratic-superdelegates.html. Reminder this was during an election they claimed was existential for the US. Like the one in 2024, where they pushed, without a real primary, a candidate who had never won a single delegate.
All this would be one thing if the centrists with their stranglehold on the party actually won. But they don’t. The GOP is firmly in control of the US - and yet the same broken party leadership remains, precisely because your logic empowers them.
You want to make accusations that I’m electing Trump? No. It’s your unquestioning support of Democratic failure that enabled today.
I have. And you’ve said you’ll vote for the Democrats be cause you think that votes against the GOP.
I don’t think it does, but regardless, they don’t care why you vote for them. You’ve made it clear they have your vote no matter what, and so your questions don’t matter.
You say they don’t care why you vote for them but said you voted third party to send a message or whatever. Seems like you feel that they care about how you vote but not anyone else.
You haven’t really convinced me your strategy will be effective.
Seems like you feel that they care about how you vote but not anyone else.
That’s not what I said. I said they don’t care about why you vote for them if you do.
They might very much care about why you don’t vote for them. That’s why the Democrats always tack to the right, btw - the most marginal voter controls the platform, and Democratic leadership believes that the imaginary moderate Republican is more marginal than the left.
And that’s why voting third party is a much more effective thing than not voting (as plenty of people did not in 2024). Voting for a non-Democratic candidate shows exactly what they’re losing and why. It’s quantifiable and can’t be argued.
Democratic loyalists often want to claim that third party voters lose elections for them. They don’t - but if they actually do, then the answer to that problem becomes obvious. Per Duverger’s law, how it’s worked since the collapse of the whigs, is that the party needs to either adopt those positions, or die.
I feel that wasn’t an effective tactic I’m the last election and is something that can be worked towards, but the amount of support third parties get isn’t substantial enough to make an impact on democratic policy as things are now.
That’s why I feel it’s imperative to focus on ranked choice (or something similar) from local and up, because of the aforementioned Duverger’s law. This could eliminate both establishment parties. Until we fix that, people know that third parties don’t win elections, especially not national ones, and you can’t do anything unless you actually get into a position of power.
Yeah you sure showed him. He’s sad in the oval office over it. Good job, you helped get him elected.
Please explain to me how my vote for De La Cruz in NY (which went for Kamala) helped Trump get elected?
Show your work, because apparently you don’t understand how elections work.
Look, I hate the whole blue no matter who bullshit, too. And yeah, maybe your specific vote, for someone who didn’t win, didn’t change history. But you gotta admit that the system as it was, and is, does not favor splitting the the vote, since it’s winner takes all. Since we have only two parties powerful enough to potentially win on the national level, if you don’t like Republicans, you’re stuck with Democrats. If you don’t like Democrats, you’re stuck with Republicans. With the system as it is now, on a national level, that’s what we’re working with.
I want to fix that. We should fix that. I’d like to see the Republicans and Democrats ousted. I want to see ranked choice voting. I think you feel the same and I’m not even sure why you’re arguing with me at this point.
But if we want to have meaningful impact, we have to still work with this broken car we’re riding in while working on changing it for something better.
So yeah, vote third party at local levels and work our way up, push for voter reform and build a system that is more equitable, but also vote strategically. We no longer vote for, we vote against.
So you’re rejecting all political influence you would have in the Democratic party.
And the problem is this isn’t reciprocal. Look at the NY Mayoral election for a recent example. Vote Blue No Matter Who and prioritizing the lesser evil is ONLY ever applied one way.
There’s a great article from 2020 where the NY Times says the quiet part loud - several articles about how Democratic party insiders were “willing to risk party damage to stop Sanders”. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/27/us/politics/democratic-superdelegates.html. Reminder this was during an election they claimed was existential for the US. Like the one in 2024, where they pushed, without a real primary, a candidate who had never won a single delegate.
All this would be one thing if the centrists with their stranglehold on the party actually won. But they don’t. The GOP is firmly in control of the US - and yet the same broken party leadership remains, precisely because your logic empowers them.
You want to make accusations that I’m electing Trump? No. It’s your unquestioning support of Democratic failure that enabled today.
Dude if you think I’ve got “unquestioning support of Democratic failures” you really haven’t read a single thing I’ve written.
I have. And you’ve said you’ll vote for the Democrats be cause you think that votes against the GOP.
I don’t think it does, but regardless, they don’t care why you vote for them. You’ve made it clear they have your vote no matter what, and so your questions don’t matter.
You say they don’t care why you vote for them but said you voted third party to send a message or whatever. Seems like you feel that they care about how you vote but not anyone else.
You haven’t really convinced me your strategy will be effective.
That’s not what I said. I said they don’t care about why you vote for them if you do.
They might very much care about why you don’t vote for them. That’s why the Democrats always tack to the right, btw - the most marginal voter controls the platform, and Democratic leadership believes that the imaginary moderate Republican is more marginal than the left.
And that’s why voting third party is a much more effective thing than not voting (as plenty of people did not in 2024). Voting for a non-Democratic candidate shows exactly what they’re losing and why. It’s quantifiable and can’t be argued.
Democratic loyalists often want to claim that third party voters lose elections for them. They don’t - but if they actually do, then the answer to that problem becomes obvious. Per Duverger’s law, how it’s worked since the collapse of the whigs, is that the party needs to either adopt those positions, or die.
I feel that wasn’t an effective tactic I’m the last election and is something that can be worked towards, but the amount of support third parties get isn’t substantial enough to make an impact on democratic policy as things are now.
That’s why I feel it’s imperative to focus on ranked choice (or something similar) from local and up, because of the aforementioned Duverger’s law. This could eliminate both establishment parties. Until we fix that, people know that third parties don’t win elections, especially not national ones, and you can’t do anything unless you actually get into a position of power.