How much is your socialism gonna help anybody when a fascist state overthrows you because you don’t have a military?
Funding a defense force isn’t inherently right-wing militarism; it’s a practical necessity in the world we live in. Its primary function is as a deterrent to potential invaders, it only goes into kinetic operations when its function as a deterrent fails. All the more reason to maintain a strong military.
Peace is more likely when your adversaries know they won’t stand a chance against you.
The only leftist ideology that advocates against an active military is anarchism. Anarchists prefer spontaneous militias that activate as soon as another state acts on them. Obviously there are downsides to this practice as 1) gathering up a militia and organizing them can take time away from defending against outside oppressors, which can jeopardize defense in general, and 2) gathering up a militia of normal folk in a society means they won’t be actively trained in conducting warfare effectively, or at least not as much as another state that does have an active military - this also represents a lower hand which can again jeopardize defense in general.
Marxist-Leninist communists believe that an active military that trains its population and performs drills regularly is the most suitable defense against capitalist states, since they have their own military doing the same.
Tell that to the person being “unapologetically socialist” whom I responded to.
Anarchists can’t even organize a voting bloc or a civil sector, and they think a militia will spontaneously activate when needed? Oh please.
For the record, I am somewhere on the left of the spectrum. I believe both social democracy and democratic socialism have their merits. I’m definitely not an ML, for various reasons including I believe they’re too authoritarian and I find them insufferable.
But I also believe that modern social democracies such as are found in western and northern Europe have societies and ways of life that are worth defending, even if that means fighting for them. With the threat looming to the east, I find it imperative for Europe to fund a strong military coalition/alliance.
If you’re trying to draw a comparison between modern Europe (or even modern Germany) and Nazi Germany, don’t. You’re only revealing your ignorance. Or you know it’s inaccurate and you’re doing it anyway in bad faith.
Unless you would have every European nation surrender to russian imperialism, which you seem to be trying to excuse in your previous comment. If that’s the case, then go away.
Putin is a fascist. The Soviet Union died over 30 years ago. Supporting modern russia doesn’t make you edgy or a leftist, it makes you either an idiot or a troll.
You’d have to be extremely ignorant to believe that opposing European defensive capabilities isn’t simultaneously helping the russian agenda.
And what of the French in WWI? They didn’t get to choose peace, although I’m sure many of them would have preferred it. It wasn’t an option for them when their neighbor invaded. How foolish would it be for a French person at that time to say “No, don’t fund our military!”
Assuming you’re merely ignorant, and not actively spreading propaganda for the kremlin, people like you have the luxury of remaining so ignorant precisely because other folks sign up to maintain the defense forces and the industries that support it. If they went away, suddenly you would be having some serious problems which wouldn’t afford you the luxury of pacifism; only by then you wouldn’t have a fighting chance in hell to repel the adversary’s invasion.
So be grateful someone is out there deterring those conflicts, so that those conflicts don’t come home to roost in your back yard.
How much is your socialism gonna help anybody when a fascist state overthrows you because you don’t have a military?
Funding a defense force isn’t inherently right-wing militarism; it’s a practical necessity in the world we live in. Its primary function is as a deterrent to potential invaders, it only goes into kinetic operations when its function as a deterrent fails. All the more reason to maintain a strong military.
Peace is more likely when your adversaries know they won’t stand a chance against you.
The only leftist ideology that advocates against an active military is anarchism. Anarchists prefer spontaneous militias that activate as soon as another state acts on them. Obviously there are downsides to this practice as 1) gathering up a militia and organizing them can take time away from defending against outside oppressors, which can jeopardize defense in general, and 2) gathering up a militia of normal folk in a society means they won’t be actively trained in conducting warfare effectively, or at least not as much as another state that does have an active military - this also represents a lower hand which can again jeopardize defense in general.
Marxist-Leninist communists believe that an active military that trains its population and performs drills regularly is the most suitable defense against capitalist states, since they have their own military doing the same.
Tell that to the person being “unapologetically socialist” whom I responded to.
Anarchists can’t even organize a voting bloc or a civil sector, and they think a militia will spontaneously activate when needed? Oh please.
For the record, I am somewhere on the left of the spectrum. I believe both social democracy and democratic socialism have their merits. I’m definitely not an ML, for various reasons including I believe they’re too authoritarian and I find them insufferable.
But I also believe that modern social democracies such as are found in western and northern Europe have societies and ways of life that are worth defending, even if that means fighting for them. With the threat looming to the east, I find it imperative for Europe to fund a strong military coalition/alliance.
Lemmy “leftists”: THE USSR HAVING A STANDING ARMY AND USING IT AGAINST NAZIS IS IMPERIALISM
Also Lemmy “leftists”: WE NEED TO STRENGTHEN THE GLORIOUS EUROPEAN FREEDOM 🦅🦅🦅🦅 GIVING MONEY TO LITERAL NAZI TANK MANUFACTURER RHEINMETALL
What are you on about?
“We need to throw cash bricks at rheinmetall. Yes, I’m a leftist”
If you’re trying to draw a comparison between modern Europe (or even modern Germany) and Nazi Germany, don’t. You’re only revealing your ignorance. Or you know it’s inaccurate and you’re doing it anyway in bad faith.
Unless you would have every European nation surrender to russian imperialism, which you seem to be trying to excuse in your previous comment. If that’s the case, then go away.
Putin is a fascist. The Soviet Union died over 30 years ago. Supporting modern russia doesn’t make you edgy or a leftist, it makes you either an idiot or a troll.
“Not supporting your nation’s military apparatus is synonymous with helping the opposite empire”
-Every state propaganda in WW1
You’d have to be extremely ignorant to believe that opposing European defensive capabilities isn’t simultaneously helping the russian agenda.
And what of the French in WWI? They didn’t get to choose peace, although I’m sure many of them would have preferred it. It wasn’t an option for them when their neighbor invaded. How foolish would it be for a French person at that time to say “No, don’t fund our military!”
Assuming you’re merely ignorant, and not actively spreading propaganda for the kremlin, people like you have the luxury of remaining so ignorant precisely because other folks sign up to maintain the defense forces and the industries that support it. If they went away, suddenly you would be having some serious problems which wouldn’t afford you the luxury of pacifism; only by then you wouldn’t have a fighting chance in hell to repel the adversary’s invasion.
So be grateful someone is out there deterring those conflicts, so that those conflicts don’t come home to roost in your back yard.
What? Did russia invade itself? You said they are using it against nazis, but they’ve just been bombing innocent civilians.
Also, “USSR” saying the quiet part out loud? Lol
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After the friendships and understanding pact, yeah I know. I know you’re a nazi apologist, but that’s not a good thing.
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A genuine thank you for this reply, I will need time to read it thoroughly.
E: I need to add, I am not saying the soviets were nazis. Modern russia, under putin is fascist however