I’m a bit hesitant to post this, but it comes from a place of genuine curiosity and of wanting a clearer understanding of the situation. Because trying to make sense of things through online resources feels like a minefield. My gut tells me that migration is a good thing, but I want some solid ammunition for when far-right idiots try to argue.

Firstly it seems like there is a large amount of conflation between ‘immigration’, ‘illegal immigration’ and ‘asylum seekers’. As far as I understand it, asylum seekers are coming into this country legally in order to apply for asylum. However, a lot come in via small boats which is an illegal method of entry. It seems that there are very few legal ways to enter if you’re an asylum seeker. Once you’re here though, I think it’s legal once you’re going through the asylum process? Either way as far as I can tell, asylum seekers make for a small portion of the overall number of immigrants. But when you see people protesting, they mainly seem to be concerned by people coming in via boats. Surely it’s fair greater number of legal migrants that are the ones more likely to put a strain on infrastructure?

And yes there definitely are strains on the NHS and other public services. The population is growing, and these services need to grow alongside that. But isn’t it more sensible to say that the fault lies not with migrants, but the fact that these services are being mismanaged and underfunded?

I’ve also heard that the UK has an ageing population. Without immigration we soon won’t have the workforce necessary to support the non-working portion of the population.

So is there actually an issue with immigration, or do the people that argue that case actually have it backwards? Is the problem actually our underfunded services, and the whole immigration rhetoric purely populist nonsense to get the far-right in power (who in turn, aim to give tax breaks to the rich and exacerbate the issue even further)?

And where exactly can I go to get factual information about this sort of thing?

  • Denjin@feddit.uk
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    21 days ago

    Firstly, there’s a basic issue with semantics: there’s no such thing as an illegal immigrant. You have migrants, who use established immigration pathways to legally enter a country (for example, nurses who get recruited from Singapore to work the the NHS). You also have asylum seekers, the majority of whom have no legal mechanism to enter the country (as until their asylum claim is accepted, they have no right to enter the country) and so who enter the UK through an illegal route (such as crossing the channel on a small boat via a people smuggler).

    When I last looked at the statistics, there’s a 2/3rds majority in favour of people legally migrating into the country and asylum seekers form a smaller proportion.

    The biggest issue with the system as it stands is the delay in processing asylum applications and appeals which has dragged on to take more than a year, the entire length of which time we’re obliged to house and feed them. Should a claim be successful, they become a legal migrant to the UK and earn an indefinite right to remain. If its unsuccessful they’re returned either to their country of origin or the last safe country they left before entering the UK.

    Legal migration is a vital part of our economy, without them we would have not enough nurses, farm workers, care home workers, street sweepers, and all the other jobs that British citizens now no longer are able or willing to do.

    Asylum receiving is our legal and moral obligation but the system has been horribly under funded and managed and allowed to become the flash point issue we’re now seeing.

    Obviously there’s going to be some among both the legal migrant community and the asylum seekers who are exploiting the system, there are those who are criminals and paedophiles but we can’t use those as an excuse to say “we’re closed” despite what an increasingly large proportion of the country (fueled by bad actors and populist demagogues) believe.

    • Skullgrid@lemmy.world
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      21 days ago

      there are those who are criminals and paedophiles

      just to make something about this explicit : there are also criminals and paedophiles in the non-immigrant population as well, like Prince Andrew.

    • theo@lemmy.world
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      20 days ago

      Out of curiosity, how would you describe someone coming in using an illegal route and not claiming asylum? No idea how prevalent this group would be, but this I think is the type that is the target of fearmongoring. From what I gather, the sketchy gig economy-type companies are what fuels this.