The problem is that a licence is expensive as fuck here in Germany. If I wanted to upgrade my drivers licence to those 125 motorcycles, that will be around 800€. A full motorcycle licence is several thousands of Euros. There are also age limits in place. So a young person can just hop on a bicycle with a motor for free or “simply buy a small bike” with costs of several thousands of Euros. It would make sense if we bring the cost of thoses licences down.
The point is that a ebike and a bike are two separated things that follow different rules.
Yeah and that is exactly what I wanted to say: Why is a motor assisted thing that can go 25km/h a different thing from a motor assisted thing that can go 25km/h? I’m not talking about full motorcycles, but to give you an exemple: I own an eBike. There is a throttle available that would let me cruise at up to 25km/h without pedaling. That is totally illegal to install here, because that would make it a legally totally different thing and that would e.g. also prevent me from using my current brakes or to install the current tires. Which makes no sense - the risks are the same, brakes and tires are of course normal bicycling components which are totally fine to use at 25km/h, but the regulation is crap.
The scooter license is included with the car’s license, and scooters can go up to 45 kph. An e-bike with a throttle could be classified as a scooter (or even a Mofa, which is essentially what it is anyway).
The problem is that a licence is expensive as fuck here in Germany. If I wanted to upgrade my drivers licence to those 125 motorcycles, that will be around 800€. A full motorcycle licence is several thousands of Euros.
Damn, and I was thinking that in Italy licences are expensive…
So a young person can just hop on a bicycle with a motor for free or “simply buy a small bike” with costs of several thousands of Euros. It would make sense if we bring the cost of thoses licences down.
The problem is that this way you would have a young person on what is basically a bike but without even the smallest knowlegde of how to behave on a public road.
Yeah and that is exactly what I wanted to say: Why is a motor assisted thing that can go 25km/h a different thing from a motor assisted thing that can go 25km/h?
Probably they follow different rules to be approved to be on the street.
I’m not talking about full motorcycles, but to give you an exemple: I own an eBike. There is a throttle available that would let me cruise at up to 25km/h without pedaling. That is totally illegal to install here, because that would make it a legally totally different thing and that would e.g. also prevent me from using my current brakes or to install the current tires. Which makes no sense - the risks are the same, brakes and tires are of course normal bicycling components which are totally fine to use at 25km/h, but the regulation is crap.
This way you basically made out a scooter out of your bike, that is what the regulation probably want to avoid.
This way you basically made out a scooter out of your bike, that is what the regulation probably want to avoid.
And that is exactly the point: The regulation doesn’t make any sense. It is the same vehicle. Me pedalling doesn’t bring any safety improvement. It’s not suddenly a scooter, it’s the same vehicle.
There are a lot of countries where throttles on eBikes are legal and they do not have much problems either. So yeah, there might be a big legal difference, but that is totally arbitrary and we could do better.
Me pedalling doesn’t bring any safety improvement.
It does, as stopping your bike from 25 km/h will occur more often if no pedaling is required and thus, the brakes (or the rim) may overheat. Many pedelecs (“E-Bikes”) do still have rim brakes or their disc brakes have smaller dimensions than required for proper e-bike with throttle.
Not really - I’m going 25km/h if I’m pedaling and I would go 25km/h with a throttle. And bike manufacturers fitting underpowered brakes on eBikes is an issue for another regulation?
And how many time you reach 25 km/h while pedaling and how many time you reach 25 km/h with a throttle ?
Have you ever ridden an eBike? It’s totally easy to reach 25km/h by pedalling. It’s also possible to reach that speed (and to go over that) on a normal bicycle without a motor
I reach it every time. You do not need much pedal assist to reach the max. And if I’m on my road bike without a motor, I’m even faster. And I communte by bicycle and can tell you: 25km/h is the default speed for eBikes
Yes, exactly this is what makes e-bikes so unpredictable in traffic. While a normal biker is unlikely to bing 350 W onto the street every time they start, it’s a piece of cake with an e-bike. Additionally, as e-bikes legally count as regular bikes, they are subject to the same slack safety standards and e-bike manufacturers regularly have been criticised e.g. by Stiftung Warentest for failing components.
The problem is that a licence is expensive as fuck here in Germany. If I wanted to upgrade my drivers licence to those 125 motorcycles, that will be around 800€. A full motorcycle licence is several thousands of Euros. There are also age limits in place. So a young person can just hop on a bicycle with a motor for free or “simply buy a small bike” with costs of several thousands of Euros. It would make sense if we bring the cost of thoses licences down.
Yeah and that is exactly what I wanted to say: Why is a motor assisted thing that can go 25km/h a different thing from a motor assisted thing that can go 25km/h? I’m not talking about full motorcycles, but to give you an exemple: I own an eBike. There is a throttle available that would let me cruise at up to 25km/h without pedaling. That is totally illegal to install here, because that would make it a legally totally different thing and that would e.g. also prevent me from using my current brakes or to install the current tires. Which makes no sense - the risks are the same, brakes and tires are of course normal bicycling components which are totally fine to use at 25km/h, but the regulation is crap.
The scooter license is included with the car’s license, and scooters can go up to 45 kph. An e-bike with a throttle could be classified as a scooter (or even a Mofa, which is essentially what it is anyway).
Damn, and I was thinking that in Italy licences are expensive…
The problem is that this way you would have a young person on what is basically a bike but without even the smallest knowlegde of how to behave on a public road.
Probably they follow different rules to be approved to be on the street.
This way you basically made out a scooter out of your bike, that is what the regulation probably want to avoid.
And that is exactly the point: The regulation doesn’t make any sense. It is the same vehicle. Me pedalling doesn’t bring any safety improvement. It’s not suddenly a scooter, it’s the same vehicle.
There are a lot of countries where throttles on eBikes are legal and they do not have much problems either. So yeah, there might be a big legal difference, but that is totally arbitrary and we could do better.
Not according to the road code, evidentely
Yeah and I’m criticizing the road code.
It does, as stopping your bike from 25 km/h will occur more often if no pedaling is required and thus, the brakes (or the rim) may overheat. Many pedelecs (“E-Bikes”) do still have rim brakes or their disc brakes have smaller dimensions than required for proper e-bike with throttle.
Not really - I’m going 25km/h if I’m pedaling and I would go 25km/h with a throttle. And bike manufacturers fitting underpowered brakes on eBikes is an issue for another regulation?
And how many time you reach 25 km/h while pedaling and how many time you reach 25 km/h with a throttle ?
If they become a danger to the others then yes.
Have you ever ridden an eBike? It’s totally easy to reach 25km/h by pedalling. It’s also possible to reach that speed (and to go over that) on a normal bicycle without a motor
Yes.
I didn’t ask if it is possible but how many times you reach that speed while pedaling versus how many time you reach it using the throttle.
I reach it every time. You do not need much pedal assist to reach the max. And if I’m on my road bike without a motor, I’m even faster. And I communte by bicycle and can tell you: 25km/h is the default speed for eBikes
Yes, exactly this is what makes e-bikes so unpredictable in traffic. While a normal biker is unlikely to bing 350 W onto the street every time they start, it’s a piece of cake with an e-bike. Additionally, as e-bikes legally count as regular bikes, they are subject to the same slack safety standards and e-bike manufacturers regularly have been criticised e.g. by Stiftung Warentest for failing components.